Cassettes - Help me to embrace them

[holy ghost]

I bring my tape deck to the store down the street that's been there for 200 years and fixes sewing machines, blenders and TVs. When it stopped running last time they put a new motor in, did whatever to calibrate it, boom, it's worked for 7 years with no issues and it cost me about $40 with parts and labour. I'm thinking about taking the Sony deck my dad had in the 80s there too, I used that one all through the 90's and had no issues but it's stopped working around the same time I got my current deck.

I wouldn't put my tapes in a walkman, I remember when I was a kid how many times I had to pull eaten tapes out (this was in the early 90's when I just bought tapes of everything and there were no backups) and I doubt the technology has improved since then. Remember those giant fucking Sony yellow ones that were "waterproof"? Those things were built like a fucking tank.

Anyway, I don't mind tapes, I have hundreds of them but they're kind of pain to listen to for my "lifestyle" (aka I am not home as often as I'd like). I'd almost prefer a CD at this point, it might go sit in my basement in a plastic tub but at least I'll have a digital copy for my walk to work.

[Johann]

I also refuse to spend $200 on a top-of-the-line Teac deck. For me, that completely defeats the purpose of cassettes being an affordable format.

I personally question if cassette format has as much to do with affordability than with either tradition or fetish. One could argue that magnetic tape is the backbone of most of this music historically and directly responsible for its evolution and therefore is a fitting format for its release.

I think a lot of the people putting out tapes do so as a labor of love doing one to one dubs of 50 or 100 tapes, and therefore probably aren't making very much on the 7 bucks they are selling it for.

I agree with Holy though, find a cheap electronics shop to have it fixed. Shouldn't cost more than 40 or 50 bucks. I have several decks in need of repair, and am currently using a Walkman (I am not an audiophile). But one could argue that the nicer the deck you buy the less harsh it will be on your tapes, I know car tape decks eat shit up.

The appeal of tape for me is it is similar to vinyl format since you interact with it by manually flipping it. I also like the look, the feel and watching them play. That said as I get older, even though I continue to buy LPs and the like I'm actually just as happy with MP3 due to accessibility and the desire to not be drowning in stuff.

[jadderly]

I grew up on tapes and I don't really romanticize them the way some people do. As others said, making sure the tape itself is mechanically ready for play and that your tape deck or portable cassette player in sound working condition is key.

I probably only have 20 or 30 tapes now and rarely play them. Part of the reason is I don't have a traditional tape deck.

I do have a very nice Sony Walkman I bought NOS a few years back on eBay. It actually sounds quite good, has selectors for tape type and all that, one of those big sports models as well.

I think if someone is going to run a tape label in 2016, selling high quality digital downloads of the music on the tape is probably a good idea. Several labels are doing this now and I have to give them credit. Even though I can play tapes it's not my preferred format and I will gladly take a paid FLAC download over a tape any day.

[Zeno Marx]

Our local repair shop was once the regional authorized repair center for Teac and several others.  I believe they were even once an authorized Nakamichi and McIntosh shop.  Older guy who has been working on electronics since the 70s and his niece at the desk.  They charge $80/hour, and from what I've seen, you aren't getting out of there with a bill less than that.  5 minutes or 60 minutes = $80.  After that, they get precise with their fees.  They do high quality work, though.

[Theodore]

I think if someone is going to run a tape label in 2016, selling high quality digital downloads of the music on the tape is probably a good idea. Several labels are doing this now and I have to give them credit. Even though I can play tapes it's not my preferred format and I will gladly take a paid FLAC download over a tape any day.

I have had several different opinions about digital downloads in the past, starting from think them as a "bless". But i have concluded that digital files / masters should stay at artist's / label's PC and not for public. It destroys most of the surrounding "fun", not the listening ofcource cause they are superior sonically. Turns the whole thing into a "fast food" proccess, imo. Personally, i prefer to "hunt" for a long time a limited or old tape [Vinyl, CD] i want, to pay something more at the end to get it, than to wake up a day and see it suddenly on Bandcamp for a few dollars, for free or even already pirated around, just a few clicks away. At the end if something becomes / prooved too hard or expensive to get, a physical reissue is very welcome.

[SinkSlopProcessing]

Personally, i prefer to "hunt" for a long time a limited or old tape [Vinyl, CD] i want, to pay something more at the end to get it, than to wake up a day and see it suddenly on Bandcamp for a few dollars, for free or even already pirated around, just a few clicks away. At the end if something becomes / prooved too hard or expensive to get, a physical reissue is very welcome.

You should definitely buy a Sluice Room album, then - all of our releases are physical only! ;)

Very interesting, overall, to hear everyone's opinions here. I do want to support artists releasing on cassette because it is, as many have said, a labor of love. It may also be a fetish or a fad, but that's fine too. You can't go wrong supporting people's passion. Hell, I have an incurable CD fetish, though they aren't terribly popular right now (but I'm not complaining about how cheap used CDs are...).

I also plan to look into getting a direct-drive cassette deck, which I didn't even know existed until recently. I know there's 3,000 different parts that can go wrong on any cassette player, but those damn drive belts are the bane of my auditory existence lately.

[Andrew McIntosh]

i have concluded that digital files / masters should stay at artist's / label's PC and not for public. It destroys most of the surrounding "fun", not the listening ofcource cause they are superior sonically. Turns the whole thing into a "fast food" proccess, imo. Personally, i prefer to "hunt" for a long time a limited or old tape [Vinyl, CD] i want, to pay something more at the end to get it, than to wake up a day and see it suddenly on Bandcamp for a few dollars, for free or even already pirated around, just a few clicks away. At the end if something becomes / prooved too hard or expensive to get, a physical reissue is very welcome.

Hunting for rare stuff is all well and good but why on Earth should you worry if the same audio material is available online for anyone else? You getting the pleasure of looking for a physical item, others getting the pleasure of just hearing the sound without having to hunt for it - how is that not a win/win? If it's "fast food" to you, you don't have to eat it, but why shouldn't anyone else?

[SinkSlopProcessing]

Hunting for rare stuff is all well and good but why on Earth should you worry if the same audio material is available online for anyone else? You getting the pleasure of looking for a physical item, others getting the pleasure of just hearing the sound without having to hunt for it - how is that not a win/win? If it's "fast food" to you, you don't have to eat it, but why shouldn't anyone else?

I think the sole down side would be Bandcamp itself. Their terms & conditions may be the most terrifying legal document I've ever seen. They actually use the term "exploit" - as in, they have the right to exploit your work in any way they see fit. For all intents and purposes, they own every piece of sound and artwork you post. (Soundcloud is much better, but they are not really marketplace-focused).

[Theodore]

Hunting for rare stuff is all well and good but why on Earth should you worry if the same audio material is available online for anyone else? You getting the pleasure of looking for a physical item, others getting the pleasure of just hearing the sound without having to hunt for it - how is that not a win/win? If it's "fast food" to you, you don't have to eat it, but why shouldn't anyone else?

What i didn't write or my bad english didn't help me to express it right, is that if such digital appears / exists i stop looking for the physical item, in most cases. I am not an item fetishist, it's the music i care about too, mostly. To have / listen it in the best possible quality it's offered from the "source", either that be physical format or digital. So with digital being easily available my hunt for this release is over, there isn't a hunt. I guess maybe the chase is better than the catch for me, or the catch is better if there is a chase first. I don't know, but that's how i feel.

[Andrew McIntosh]

I think the sole down side would be Bandcamp itself. Their terms & conditions may be the most terrifying legal document I've ever seen. They actually use the term "exploit" - as in, they have the right to exploit your work in any way they see fit..

Yes, having a look at it now that is a down side. A rather contradictory document too, as it starts by stating "Company will not have any ownership rights in any elements of an Artist's Music", then adds "however" and then goes on to basically claim ownership rights of any elements of an artist's music. Although it does later state that any use of your music and graphics is "solely in connection with the Service or in the marketing, promotion or advertising of the service, including in all forms of marketing, promotion, and advertising materials now known or hereafter created", which to me looks like they're saying they may use someone's music and image as an example of how successful you can be on Bandcamp once they conquers the charts and ends up sitting on the panel of judges of "This Country's Got Talent".

I think for the likes of scum like us there's no danger we'll be ripped off. But that is a worrying element of their terms and conditions. I wonder if there's been hassle so far as a result. The whole mainstream music industry is a fucking miasma of legal traps anyway.

[SinkSlopProcessing]

Although it does later state that any use of your music and graphics is "solely in connection with the Service or in the marketing, promotion or advertising of the service, including in all forms of marketing, promotion, and advertising materials now known or hereafter created", which to me looks like they're saying they may use someone's music and image as an example of how successful you can be on Bandcamp once they conquers the charts and ends up sitting on the panel of judges of "This Country's Got Talent".

I think for the likes of scum like us there's no danger we'll be ripped off. But that is a worrying element of their terms and conditions. I wonder if there's been hassle so far as a result. The whole mainstream music industry is a fucking miasma of legal traps anyway.

I could imagine them using even our sonic smut for their own purposes... Imagine a TV or radio ad. Your harsh noise is playing loud and clear. The announcer comes on and says "Don't let your next record sound like THIS! Use Bandcamp's new mastering service!"

It is a shame that even those completely outside mainstream commercial music (like all of us) now have to worry about mainstream music industry issues - all for the sake of some web hosting & a place to pitch our wares. It's frustrating as hell. I think of older extreme acts like acts like Throbbing Gristle & Merzbow in their earliest days: making cassettes & generally not giving a fuck. You'll never make money off it anyway, so why not just DIY & be completely uncompromising? But then again, both eventually ended up on bigger labels, and used the media of the day to the best of their ability...

Maybe that's why I want to be somewhat supportive of cassettes (my frustrations with the format notwithstanding), if I may bring the thread full circle. In an ideal world, that's what cassettes can be (and CD-Rs, thumb drives, etc): a big middle finger to the industry. Digital is undeniable convenient, but is virtually impossible to do without signing your rights away. That's one often unspoken advantage of physical media: the ability to retain the rights to your own work.

[SinkSlopProcessing]

Welp - I officially give up. My FIFTH cassette deck went tits-up. It was a newly refurbished Sankyo, new belts, sounded great. Until after less than a month of use, the left channel suddenly dropped out & was replaced with a deafening, studdering noise. Just when I learn how to repair belts (which seem to always die within minutes in my previous decks), now this happens. I'm done. Time to rediscover the merits of the humble compact disc...

However, my loss is your gain. Check out my discogs page for a chance to buy some of the cassettes I never got a chance to listen to. All but one are imported, so it's a great deal if you're in the US.

https://www.discogs.com/seller/SinkSlopProcessing/profile

[calaverasgrande]

I like to pick up tape decks at garage sales, flea markets etc. In northern California this was never too hard. In NYC it's fucking impossible.  I'm still patiently combing through CL looking for someone who doesnt think they have the last tape deck used by Kirt Cobain. I swear everyone in NY thinks their feces is made out of gold.
Personally I've had positive experiences with Sony, Teac/Tascam, Aiwa, Onkyo and somewhat good with Hitachi and Sanyo. I'd like to say nice things about NAD or Pioneer but I never owned one.
I've got my heart set on another Sony digitally controlled analog one from the 80's. Those are beasts. Sound better than digital, weight a ton, but when they break nobody has the parts.

As far as cassettes as a medium in general I guess I owe them a lot. I did most of my recording from an early age up into my mid 30's on cassettes. Even when I started getting into open reel tape decks, I still used cassette as mixdown and of course for distribution.
Then there are all the tapes I've bought over the years from classifieds in MRR, Factsheet 5, Flipside etc. Most of which were obscure, awful and great.

[NO PART OF IT]

I am not an audiophile, but I will suggest a couple things.

I do pro tapes with a duplication company that includes a COBY Walkman with each order.  They are cheap and easily replaceable.  I recently had a Sony dual tape deck from the 80s that died after 30 years, and I dubbed a few short run tapes on them, about 200 dubs altogether, and that was the nail in the coffin, to be honest, but in terms of playback, never had a problem.  I think in this case, when the tape stopped, something wore out that the motor didn't stop,so if I didn't manually stop it, it would wear the motor...   And it eventually wore out.  I should have fixed that, it was a mighty loyal deck. 

So... the COBY Walkman is really cheap, and has never eaten anything of mine, a couple years now, BUT it gets feedback from cell phone signals very easily, so if you are in public, you will get a loud buzzing sound when someone on their phone passes.  But at home, it's not a problem.  Also, if you decide to take another chance with a thrift store, again, I am no expert, but it seems to me, the heavier the better.  And must be from the 80s, especially if you plan to do home dubbing.  Anything in the 90s is just not meant to dub more than 150 tapes in its lifetime. 

And also, I've been using CDrs since 1997, and the only ones that have worn out are those  where it is black on the playable side.  I don't understand the reluctance toward CDrs, aside from the likeliness that it will be labelled with sharpie marker or spray paint and whatnot.  Obviously there is a bit of a sound difference between glass mastered CDs and CDrs, but I've never been able to tell the difference with one, unless it was the very cheap kind, like Verbatim... 

[DBL]

Obviously there is a bit of a sound difference between glass mastered CDs and CDrs, but I've never been able to tell the difference with one, unless it was the very cheap kind, like Verbatim... 

I thought Verbatim's a good brand! Going offtopic, but have you got any recommendations on good brands & places to order the CD-R's from?