Industrial music vs. real life

[Andrew McIntosh]

It more fits in with my general aesthetics, but originally it helped by allowing me to question and eventually reject a lot of previous notions I had adopted out of stupidity. My values and ethics I work out for myself, but since I indulge in a lot of Noisetc., it would be impossible for it not to have an effect at least subconsciously.

I see. So, we can say that "industrial music" didn't change anything to you... maybe only it accelarated some attributes ?

The more I think about it, the more it seems like a chicken-and-egg question. Who's attracted to such sounds/imagery/ideas in the first place? There'd have to be at least some kind of morbid curiosity in someone, even if they did fancy themselves a good lefty liberal or whatever. So if there's an attraction in the first place, it's pretty much because there'd be something in the person that's attracted.

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

No. Is that the answer you wanted?

I wanted your answer only :)
Frankly speaking, I wanted to read more answers with declarations this music has got huge influence on life, especially among younger people, at least on this forum.

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

but the way in which you let Industrial music affect your life really depends on how much of an idiot you are.

And your opinion can be confirmation how art is weak in confrontation to life. It speaks that one of the biggest value of art is positive (or negative, it depends on situation) capability changing human minds, their sensitivity, not mention knowledge about world and their psychological aspects which can led to transgression.

[Duncan]

The problem you have, ImpulsyStetoskopu, is that you're falling into the trap of believing that industrial music - when viewed at the level of a musical subculture - has something more profound to offer than any other kind of musical subculture.  Of course there are messages in music that can be influential and the opportunities to be exposed to other kinds of culture and people will have direct and lasting effects on people and their lives, but really this is just what it means to take part in an appreciation of some kind of art or, perhaps more accurately, a hobby.

Appreciation of music is, for the most part, an inherently social thing which I think is excellent.  Why, only a few hours ago I was sat having a beer or two with a music pal and shooting the shit about all kinds of stuff.  For me, these are some of the precious moments in life.  But to imagine that something different is happening among he and I to, say, a load of Prince or Motorhead fans is more or less foolish.  I can't think of a single person who is demonstrably effected by industrial music outside of these cultural & social things at least alongside a love of the music.  To be honest, most people I love who I have met through music are interesting to me because they have fully formed and compelling characters, not just because they demonstrate some kind of epitomised lifestyle of that music.  In fact, the very few people I've met who have very little else to say or do without reference to being into noise and power electronics have usually been really awkward, crushing bores who don't seem all that happy and fulfilled in their own lives.  Nothing to do with their chosen genre, of course, but more to do with a limited amount of things in life which give them pleasure and, sadly, perhaps a limited ability to express themselves socially.

I don't know...I get why you've asked this question but I think there is very little to be discovered in how a love of industrial music shapes the lives of its listeners that you wouldn't ultimately discover in anyone who is a devout fan of anything.

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

The problem you have, ImpulsyStetoskopu, is that you're falling into the trap of believing that industrial music - when viewed at the level of a musical subculture - has something more profound to offer than any other kind of musical subculture.

Bullshit. I didn't write or even suggest about that anywhere. We take part in forum which is dedicated to industrial music, not rock, jazz or disco. I could ask about art (in general) but who would like to answer?

I get why you've asked this question but I think there is very little to be discovered in how a love of industrial music shapes the lives of its listeners that you wouldn't ultimately discover in anyone who is a devout fan of anything.

Only reason was to know how other people from this forum feel this problem (if it is problem at all). I hope you accept this reason.

[holy ghost]

Hmmm, interesting question. I suppose I haven't, in the same way that I would actively try to not let other musical scenes "influence" me in how I think, look or act - given that that "scenes" are just made up of people who I may or may not like, get along with and identify with. Ideologically I don't think so either. I would never want to be "defined" by a subculture and truth be told I'd be wary of people who do.

I do really identify with the confrontational/challenging/outsider aspect of it, but I think a lot of other things I'm into eschew those same sensibilities, so it's not "industrial music/culture" that shapes that but rather is part of things that I can identify with. The older I get I'm more interested in removing myself from things - I mean ha ha I get it, I signed up for facebook a few months ago so I'm not going full Walden here, but I'm losing interest in living in a big city and constantly being surrounded by people.

I used to really appreciate when a band/project attempts to document the more horrific underbelly of society, however I'm a lefty liberal Canadian so I don't really have any interest in glorifying it. There's something that was so intensely perfect about TG and their aesthetic, that's so rarely replicated, so I'm quite picky about what I'm listening to. I mentioned this in another thread, but I've spent the last 8 years working in a psychiatric hospital so I see a lot of human misery in my day to day life - so typically hearing "concept" records about serial killers or a badly dubbed tape with a cumshot pic on the cover isn't exactly anything interesting to me. I guess I'm much more interested in a project like Hum of the Druid or Einleitungszeit than I am anything to do with power electronics....

[Yrjö-Koskinen]

I don't know...I get why you've asked this question but I think there is very little to be discovered in how a love of industrial music shapes the lives of its listeners that you wouldn't ultimately discover in anyone who is a devout fan of anything.

I think that perhaps fans of ice hockey, monster trucks or Mitt Romney might have their lives shaped differently by their interests than fans of industrial music by theirs.

[Andrew McIntosh]

I don't know how one goes about in life with the notion that they're more industrial-than-thou, or has let industrial music or culture influence or truly defined a new way of how they lived their life (unless a life-changing injury is involved, and really that's probably more to do with stupidity than fitting in.

conservative, bigoted bullshit that so-called industrial fans often adopt, and that we see often on this very forum. ...the way in which you let Industrial music affect your life really depends on how much of an idiot you are.

The problem you have ...

Touchy.

[Duncan]

I don't know how one goes about in life with the notion that they're more industrial-than-thou, or has let industrial music or culture influence or truly defined a new way of how they lived their life (unless a life-changing injury is involved, and really that's probably more to do with stupidity than fitting in.

conservative, bigoted bullshit that so-called industrial fans often adopt, and that we see often on this very forum. ...the way in which you let Industrial music affect your life really depends on how much of an idiot you are.

The problem you have ...

Touchy.

Sorry, you're right.

What I meant to say is that it has taught me how much to hate the world and all its people.

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

I think that perhaps fans of ice hockey, monster trucks or Mitt Romney might have their lives shaped differently by their interests than fans of industrial music by theirs.

Yeah, I think so. Though it can depend on some factors... I know or rather knew some people who were listening to industrial / experimental music but their life was shaped in traditional way. I suppose their connection with this music was on aesthetic level only (and I don't value that).

I would like to explain strongly that (for me) shaping and spiritual identification to industrial music (for example) needn't to mean that somebody should be a ripper, a die-hard misogynist or misanthrope, serial killer and so on. It is funny for me if somebody (like a Pavlov's dog) associates these cases so easy. I consider spiritual identification to industrial music more like living with values against widely binding rules in society/cultur. Full control under our life, living/recording/creating according OUR rules, not by society doesn't mean that we should kill other people and practise all sexual perversies. That's all popular icons of antisocial phenomenas which are mindles linked to industrial music are only aesthetic overstatement, what is obvious act in creation process of art.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

it's not what you asked, but the way in which you let Industrial music affect your life really depends on how much of an idiot you are.

This suggest what industrial music has to offer, is idiotic? That the less you actually cherish substance sometimes presented within industrial music, less idiot you are?

Already commented by many, but:

I think that perhaps fans of ice hockey, monster trucks or Mitt Romney might have their lives shaped differently by their interests than fans of industrial music by theirs.

Which to me, seems obvious. All you need to do, is go out and meet people outside underground scene, and you see distinctive difference. Of course, the "scene" itself, is already vastly heterogenous. Still, I'm pretty sure within industrial people, I tend to find more  personalities to associate than I would find from... let's say among Iron Maiden fan meet. As soon as we get beyond the small-talk and surface level fandom, there are many traits which are if not unique to industrial, at least very common. For example:

I would like to explain strongly that (for me) shaping and spiritual identification to industrial music (for example) needn't to mean that somebody should be a ripper, a die-hard misogynist or misanthrope, serial killer and so on. It is funny for me if somebody (like a Pavlov's dog) associates these cases so easy. I consider spiritual identification to industrial music more like living with values against widely binding rules in society/cultur. Full control under our life, living/recording/creating according OUR rules, not by society doesn't mean that we should kill other people and practise all sexual perversies.

What probably returns back to first quote. I'm pretty sure what was meant with "close-minded, conservative, bigoted bullshit", but I simply wouldn't agree on such perception.

To re-evaluate (moral) values or reality, starting from very core of human condition. To be open for new ideas and new interpretations of old ideas. Close-minded. Conservative. Bigoted. Oh yes, I can see what it probably refers to, but to me it appears many times accurate words would be rather exact opposites: Revolutionary. Open-minded.

It is merely intellectual laziness to simply file all one's personal dislikes under "incorrigible bigots". In history of industrial music, I feel that process of evaluation has been one of the key elements. To present things without clear agenda, and allow people look at the beast from eye to eye without offering template how to react. I'm sure the part of the new generation will just drop conclusions as "racists", "sexists", whatever. Fine. While the current mainstream society in west may be content with this conclusion, I would guess that in industrial music one would merely follow with questions such as: "...and?"

This approach can be the approach in this so called "real life", if you want to separate it from what you do within "industrial music".

[aububs]

This suggest what industrial music has to offer, is idiotic?

I'm hardly painting it all with the same brush. I noted the positive aspects of it too, as mentioned by Duncan and further detailed by yourself.

As with anything else, Industrial is GREAT, and also SHIT. It's down to the individual to decide how they'll let it affect their "real life" and what aspects of it they'll adhere to.

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

As with anything else, Industrial is GREAT, and also SHIT. It's down to the individual to decide how they'll let it affect their "real life" and what aspects of it they'll adhere to.

Yeah... And what individual from your personal "real" life did you adopt from the "great industrial", if I may ask?

[Theodore]

Is "open-minded" like we say "open legs" ? "Progressive" to where ? You know ? ... I think i prefer to stay "close-minded" and "conservative".

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

All it takes for the average lefty to brand people conservative and closed minded is to not fit in with their dogma. One may not be any of those things but commies don't like dissent so they try and demonise you. In the good old days it was enemy of the state/people/working class etc and off to the Gulag you go. Today it's bigot/racist/misogynist etc and you may lose your job or if more high flying have your career destroyed. While their methods to suppress are different today the intolerance is the same.

Industrial as it was and is is bound to clash with the left. That's also why it's still an important and relative genre.