What is the psychology behind feeling rejuvenation in negativity and filth?

[oOoOoOo]

I wonder what it is about myself, that feels relaxed listening to Michael Gira's "I'm an infant, I worship him". For those of you who know, it's an obscene, sexual, grotesque gory spoken word, which in my opinion explores the relationship between self disgust and authority. While I was listening to this, I found myself so enthralled by it, I laid on the floor and just closed my eyes. It's not usual that I feel rejuvenated by something, I often don't really feel whole. Sometimes though, it happens. Whether it be through sexual release, or reading a book like Story Of The Eye. I haven't read much like Story Of The Eye, but when I read that I felt such relaxation in indulging my mind in the Debauchery.

I know this question is way too vague for someone to answer, because after all you don't know me. This isn't something I'd be willing to bring up with my psychologist either. I thought maybe there would be some fellow out there who could relate to what I'm saying. Maybe give me some insight, or wisdom on what the condition of a mind so perverse could be. If you have payed attention to any of my other posts, you know I take pleasure in disgusting things, sometimes. I find a lot of things disgusting and unpleasant, even the stuff I find pleasant sometimes.

I feel strange, I wish I could understand myself, but all I have to hold myself up against is the very pathetic, obsequious behavior of my fellow human beings. They obey what they find normal, they behave as if they're a tribe of stupid monkeys. I don't know why that makes me hate them sometimes, or just the idea of them. When I meet with people on an individual level, I realize they're not as terrible as they may seem. I may develop a rapport with some who I may otherwise find disgusting. People who I am somewhat disgusted by, when I form a friendship with them I'm forced to accept the parts of them I am repulsed by. That's part of being a friend, is tolerance.

I guess that's what it could come down to, is knowing that we are all simply beings, of no higher or lower value or moral fiber. We all simply exist, to judge someone else is a primal feeling. To judge yourself though, then to judge others, to not know where the feelings you feel come from, simply bubbling up from your sub conscious, as if there were just a big stew of emotions and thoughts. The human mind really is a confusing, and sometimes dismal place. But at the same time, it makes you wonder why. I wonder what it would be like, to feel rejuvenated and feel whole inside of myself.

I've written a lot of stupid crap, but I realize that what I'm saying is vague. I just hope that maybe someone will be able to make vague sense of this.

[oOoOoOo]

The psychology behind what some would perceive as "negativity" and/or filth is subjective, as they say, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." To some, reveling in female excrement could be considered quite negative, for Bizarre Uproar, it's "a reason to get up in the morning," for both, still quite filthy, although the filth aspect certainly arouses different reactions. I doubt there'd be any academic-type general consensus about what's really behind anyone "feeling rejuvenation in filth and negativity," other than typical suspicious bullshit about maladaptive psychology, personality disorders, psychotic illness, etc. I think the long and short of it is that some are either personally geared towards that stuff already, whether we're talking swastikas, fistfucking, or both, some are curious enough to appreciate it from an impersonal distance, and others simply aren't. The last "others" category of course including people who are utterly upset and disturbed by such things. Some people prefer women who conform to some kind of societal standard of attractiveness and beauty, some prefer women you might see as completely disheveled in appearance. It's about pathology, more than psychology, is perhaps what I'm getting at. I think if you asked many of the people with "negative" or "filthy" subject matter in their projects why it's so important, the gist of the answer would be "because I like it." Any more complicated probing into the matter is why there are so many "transgressive" authors, psychologists, critics, and opinionated nosy liberals writing about such things.

For someone that talks so much about their own sexual and social...differences, I thought that sort of explanation would be taken for granted. Perhaps you're simply thinking aloud, but I really think, though, that you can probably only answer this question for yourself, in your own way.

Well, to an extent, yes, I suppose it does make sense that I just like it. My parents asked me why I wanted to read Kafka and Camus, I just said because it's depressing. I suppose that's a weird reason to some, but really I think it's just more about wondering what makes me me. That makes a lot of sense what you say about it being pathological rather than psychological. I think that psychology can be somewhat interesting, but really the wiring of your brain is the ultimate equalizer of the question. That's not something I think we can know for sure, except with primitive technology like looking at what areas of the brain light up in certain moments. Perhaps when our technology becomes more advanced, I will be able to ask an artificial intelligence the true answer to this question, as well as get a philosophical answer too which I suppose would be what I'm looking for.

And yes, I suppose sometimes I do just think out loud when I'm writing. I went into this thread feeling like I wasn't quite sure what to ask, so I decided that if I just left it that simple then people may not have any idea where I'm coming from. So I try to fill out the question a bit, sometimes ad nauseum, just so I can hope for a better answer.

[13]

I wonder what it means to be "already personally geared to towards something", though?

This example might not sit well with some, but take people who suffer from so-called "Bipolar disorder" as an example, whether you accept that as an actual illness or not. These people experience a continual oscillation of mood ranging from crippling depression to extreme mania. I find it interesting, yet not surprising, that those who suffer this horrible fate will obsess with things like negativity, death, suicide, and violence as they spiral downwards. This is worth contemplating.

My personal belief is that we are drawn to things that mirror where we are at the given moment, not who we are essentially. I think this is very important to understand if you want to get to know yourself and not just cling on to some disparaging and limiting sense of identity. While gravitating towards the "darker side of life" usually does entail a more intimate relationship with negative emotions, it does not mean that we are capable at handling them. It could actually mean quite the opposite, that we are somehow trapped on one side of the spectrum, only seeing the world around us in a half-light.

The ideal situation would be an absolute acceptance of these basic conditions, without any form of moral evaluation, as only then can our preoccupations take the form of necessary well-balanced indulgence.

This isn't something I'd be willing to bring up with my psychologist either.

Why not, if I may ask?

[oOoOoOo]

I wonder what it means to be "already personally geared to towards something", though?

This example might not sit well with some, but take people who suffer from so-called "Bipolar disorder" as an example, whether you accept that as an actual illness or not. These people experience a continual oscillation of mood ranging from crippling depression to extreme mania. I find it interesting, yet not surprising, that those who suffer this horrible fate will obsess with things like negativity, death, suicide, and violence as they spiral downwards. This is worth contemplating.

My personal belief is that we are drawn to things that mirror where we are at the given moment, not who we are essentially. I think this is very important to understand if you want to get to know yourself and not just cling on to some disparaging and limiting sense of identity. While gravitating towards the "darker side of life" usually does entail a more intimate relationship with negative emotions, it does not mean that we are capable at handling them. It could actually mean quite the opposite, that we are somehow trapped on one side of the spectrum, only seeing the world around us in a half-light.

The ideal situation would be an absolute acceptance of these basic conditions, without any form of moral evaluation, as only then can our preoccupations take the form of necessary well-balanced indulgence.

This isn't something I'd be willing to bring up with my psychologist either.

Why not, if I may ask?

Well, on second thought, I suppose I could bring up my experience with the michael gira spoken word with her. I was just thinking that I don't really want to discuss anything overtly sexual with her, as it's something that I have ardently tried to avoid thus far. I've told her a few things about myself, she seems to get the gist of what sort of things I am about. I will talk to her about literally anything else but sexual stuff, I will talk to basically anyone about anything besides sexual stuff. I think that I can talk to her about it, I don't think that I really thought it all the way through at first. I don't see any reason that I can't bring this up with her.

[oOoOoOo]

Unless you feel it's somehow majorly impacting on your life or happiness, or your activities aren't hurting or scaring unwilling/non-consenting others through illegal public activities, then trust your gut feeling and keep it to yourself or only share it with someone you trust (just like with any unusual sexual interest really). I'm sure over time you'll slowly adjust to and somewhat accept your peccadillos - you don't exactly have to flaunt them to everyone you know or meet, or have it as part of your everyday identity (as you've found out, those that do let obsessions take over their lives or their character are pretty scary), but eventually you'll realise it's just another silly thing that you happen to like and enjoy. If you can find someone else IRL that enjoys or accepts it too, that's a bonus.

It's also very difficult measuring people's sexual habits and how they deal with them, especially by way of the online representation of them, because their online character only shows this very one-dimensional side of themselves - you don't see the psychological build up or history that's taken place for them to engage in AND film/photograph such practices. Kind of like how the public measures a serial killer's personality based off their crimes - the crimes are only very tiny facets of their life compared to the experiences and experiments building up to these short explosive moments.

In the meantime, have you signed up to or tried using FetLife? Again, it's very one-dimensional (people seem to leave their neuroses on the door before entering it, which may take some getting used to) but you may find some interesting people or groups through it.

Yes, I have tried fetlife. I hear what you're saying about murderers, and how the public only focuses on the acts they've committed. I find myself somewhat able to relate to them in this way (although there's nothing dangerous or lethal about me), they have things about them that are simply what they enjoy, but seem treacherous to others. I think this is why I have always taken solace in learning about darker things, I think it gives more perspective and makes me feel more at home. I wonder if people with more adversity are often shaped into a more nihilistic mold, simply because they are so different, and religion itself requires someone to either deny their basic nature or simply be so ordinary that there's nothing that could set them apart anyways (that or they just don't think). Sorry to use religion so randomly, but I always seem to be using it as an example, because it seems so analogous as an example to use for contrast.

I have found that this is the case, that just keeping yourself to yourself is a good way to be. This is also my turmoil, I keep to myself too much. There's so much about me I'd rather not share with others, sometimes it may seem that I write too much on this forum. It's not easy being gay, deviant, morally nihilistic, atheist, pessimistic, in a world so petty and narrow minded, it seems people see these things as simply "wrong", with no indication of reasoning behind what they think. Press the stupid masses, they won't even be able to give you a reasonable argument to back it up. Sorry to go on this sort of rant, but I feel as it's unavoidable sometimes. Well, not unavoidable, but there's just no point to avoid it.

[Fluid Fetish]

Very interesting topic. It's difficult to articulate and something that is very abstract for myself maybe? Especially without going into longwinded stories or diatribes. I've often wondered about this myself though in regards to my own reactions to certain experiences or stimulus that I didn't understand my own response too or just generally trying to understand  how I respond to things that I would describe as transcendent/numinous experiences in my own life.

I've heard from people heavily into BDSM and other deviant forms of sexuality that they claim that being in a dominant or submissive role is like a religious experience which can usually be explained through a basic understanding of how that person lives. For example a successful, rich CEO or a manager of a major company in a powerful position of authority getting off by being submissive totally makes sense to me for obvious reaons. But not necessarily, obviously the guy in Bizarre Uproar loves being submissive or whatever but I don't think for reasons that could be compared to my prior example.

To use two somewhat graphic personal examples for me, growing up as not exactly a tough guy or a big guy, I can remember the first time I seriously was beaten badly in a fist fight in college where this guy and his friend just wailed on me, broke my nose, seperated a rib, they were kicking me when I was down in the head etc. When the cops showed up and these guys had long since run off, I was covered in blood, staggering around cracking up and felt absolutely euphoric. It was very odd even at the time, obviously I was high on adrenaline and endorphins but what most people would describe as a humiliating or tramuatizing experience for me felt like the come down from an LSD trip. Absolutely incredible, and the high didn't dissipate for days. One of the most amazing sexual experiences I've ever had was wiping menstral blood all over a girl and then licking it all off since I'm obsessed with blood, piss, spit and any other female bodily fluids....but I can't explain why. Sex and violence in general are for me a rejuvenating and almost like a form of mental sustenance, I know that probably makes it sound like I'm being Mr. Tough Guy but I'm not a violent or sexually out of control person at all and I don't go around seeking that sort of thing (well, sex I do haha)...I'm just obsessed with them. It's almost like a clean slate feeling for me after witnessing or experiencing certain things in the flesh, similar in many ways to the 'come down' of hallucinogens I've experienced. I have theories as to why that primarily revolve around how the human mind interprets extreme experiences (like PTSD for example) but I won't keep going here, I guess my only point here in all this rambling was maybe I know what you're talking about or can relate  oOoOoOo.

[calaverasgrande]

transgression comes to mind.
Like calling your black lover a nigger when you fuck them.
(sorry calling your white lover honkey isn't the same thing).

[oOoOoOo]

What's a good place to start with Dennis Cooper's literature?

[david lloyd jones]

necrophilia- in the broadest sense

[oOoOoOo]

Yeah I wasn't too impressed with frisk either, that's why I thought I'd ask. It's weird, frisk is rated highest on goodreads. I'll try the marble swarm, I also wanna get a copy of hogg and cows and the painted bird. I need something beautifully fucked.

[oOoOoOo]

Informative post, I'll surely be returning to that for a while to seek some of those suggestions. I've been trying to get my hands on some sotos fictions like index, but it seems I can't even find them on digital download, and the books are awfully expensive. I'll definitely check out that other stuff though, I am trying to plan my finances so I can just buy a huge lot of books of this style in the near future. It doesn't feel the same unless I have the book in my hands, on my shelf.

[oOoOoOo]

you discovered dennis cooper through the public library? sick. can't imagine how you stumbled across that without knowing what it was first.

[david lloyd jones]

transgression comes to mind.
Like calling your black lover a nigger when you fuck them.
(sorry calling your white lover honkey isn't the same thing).

can't see why.
race play in s+m as with other play is about the dynamic of power so calling someone honey in this context would clearly work