Witch Hunt Season is Open

[Goat93]

Yes, cause there is not only one Antifa with a Holy Book of Rules and Laws. Its a chaotic bunch of different people and organisations under a Big Name. Like Gothic is the Name for several Subgenres. The Game always change and even if you ask your Local Groub about Black Lists its not secure and won't guarantee that another Antifa Block won't fuck your Party. Its not Antifa Hamburg only stationed in Hamburg nor are they the only operating Antifas in Hamburg. If you'r OK with Antifa Hamburg any other Group can beat you up or fuck you up. You really think that an Antifa Heldrungen or a Antifa Bucha can be a real Problem?
Most important is the Fact, that the Antifa have no relation to Subcultures and the Background, so they use to fight against everything in the end. And without consence, logic or Ideologie. And they don't fight against Organisations, they fight against People. For the right winged its pretty normal to see their Adresses and Private Fotos everywhere on Posterns, Internet and Newspapers or get beaten up by a mob, so the Antifa can't make a move here. If normal people are fucked up in this way its like a Victory for the Antifa and they don't care what they break on the Road to Victory.

i edit the text and try it in a different way. Imagine someone see's your Mailorder and say that you can't sell some Stuff cause its right winged and send you some links with Infos about it from Indymedia and Junge World. You sort it out and sell the other stuff.

Now imagine that another Person writes about Stuff also with Links from Indymedia and other Sources but the Stuff they want to forbid is actualy not even Political, so you don't agree and discuss without end about it. After you get Public attention on Indymedia any kind of warriors write to you and in the end everything in your mailorder is forbidden cause its not human and intolerant. If you don't shut down your Mailorder they will fuck you up make your adress public, you will get Police Help with sorting your Stuff and if they find out that you are in no organisation who could help you, they visit you for helping and tea...and that AFTER you cleaned your Mailorder from every maybe right winged, sexicst, racist and inhuman treadhs....

[deutscheasphalt]

Yes, cause there is not only one Antifa with a Holy Book of Rules and Laws.

Not saying there is. All I'm saying is that a random attack by a few people can probably be fended off with security/self-defense weaponry. A more organized and dangerous attack would have to be coordinated somewhat publicly (forums, facebook) so to avoid or prepare for the latter (switching location, cancel, get police involved, etc.) there has to be some awareness. You seem to think that it's in no way possible to predict anything and that every show is a gamble which is fine, I just totally disagree.
The reason I'm advocating for this is that I don't want organizers and artists to be surprised by a violent shut down and antifa is not gonna just disappear any time soon. These violent attacks is a problem which calls for immediate defense strategy and I don't think sitting there with the stance of "nothing can't be done in preparation anyways, if they come, they come" is very productive.

[deutscheasphalt]

You edited your post and I'll have to respond to that later since it's a little different from what we were talking about originally.
I don't know if there's any specific laws against doxxing in Germany I'd have to look that up.

[Goat93]

Yes, cause there is not only one Antifa with a Holy Book of Rules and Laws.

Not saying there is. All I'm saying is that a random attack by a few people can probably be fended off with security/self-defense weaponry. A more organized and dangerous attack would have to be coordinated somewhat publicly (forums, facebook) so to avoid or prepare for the latter (switching location, cancel, get police involved, etc.) there has to be some awareness. You seem to think that it's in no way possible to predict anything and that every show is a gamble which is fine, I just totally disagree.
The reason I'm advocating for this is that I don't want organizers and artists to be surprised by a violent shut down and antifa is not gonna just disappear any time soon. These violent attacks is a problem which calls for immediate defense strategy and I don't think sitting there with the stance of "nothing can't be done in preparation anyways, if they come, they come" is very productive.

I tried it now several times to clear it. If you are NOT aware that you will get Involvment from the Antifa, how could you prepare youself for it? Do you prepare yourself every day for an Earthquake and a Biohazard Outbreak? If you're aware of it you will build for sure Security Systems like usual. If you are NOT aware of this problem you won't do it and it will be a funny surprise.

I don't know if there's any specific laws against doxxing in Germany I'd have to look that up.

A Law won't help you. Look of any Antifa Site and you see how it works ;)

[deutscheasphalt]

I tried it now several times to clear it. If you are NOT aware that you will get Involvment from the Antifa, how could you prepare youself for it? Do you prepare yourself every day for an Earthquake and a Biohazard Outbreak? If you're aware of it you will build for sure Security Systems like usual. If you are NOT aware of this problem you won't do it and it will be a funny surprise.

I don't know if there's any specific laws against doxxing in Germany I'd have to look that up.

A Law won't help you. Look of any Antifa Site and you see how it works ;)

Yeah I do actually, because earthquakes are really common in Germany, about as common as antifa attacking a neofolk show. Great comparison.
If you don't think increasing your awareness by screening online presence before running a show, organizing some for of security just to be safe or the law being in any way helpful ever, I don't know what to tell you.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I do fully agree that one should be aware of consequences. If you think gig will attract wrong kind of attention, it is easy to not book it such place where protests may have effect. We have seen incidents where someone will book true black metal or obscene noise to "alternative space"/left leaning punk oriented bar, without realizing what it may lead to.

Yet, other side of the coin is to start to censor & beware of things you do. Like booking regular bands into secret gigs "just to be sure" there won't be any unnecessary drama. Make things look dubious with no info/no photos type of policy, even if it is 100% same crowd who visits all regular gigs and bands that are sold by all the usual distributors.

I am all in favor for things to be more underground. I do not care about the fancy clubs of the capital areas. But to be overly difficult and overtly secretive, it may not be ideal either. Mainly if you do not do it because choise, but just because you feel you "had to".

[luonnoton]

I am all in favor for things to be more underground. I do not care about the fancy clubs of the capital areas. But to be overly difficult and overtly secretive, it may not be ideal either. Mainly if you do not do it because choise, but just because you feel you "had to".

Wrt the metal scene, secret gigs were mostly a thing for NSBM and "NSBM-related" bands in the past, but i recall seeing an online flyer for a Watain gig at a secret location some years back. A pretty obvious publicity stunt, seeing how the aforementioned bands would often not promote their gigs very publicly out of necessity, and a pretty nice example of how the mainstream always seems to find a way to assimilate anything that can possibly be used to sell a box set or a VIP concert ticket.

[tiny_tove]

If by "wants you dead" you mean someone being in the process of attacking you of course you'll defend yourself and hopefully fuck them up, you would be stupid not to. For debating though it doesn't really matter whether someone wants you dead or not, only whether they're capable of civil and informed discourse. I only mentioned that because you said in your earlier post that you were contacted to join some discussion and I still think public debates are the best way to expose ignorant and stupid positions.

debate is used not to clarify but to collect sentences to make up evidence, as it happened in a couple of Italian forums. so there can be no debate.

[Bloated Slutbag]

What nobody wants to talk about is how critics, fans and even artists grossly overestimate the power, impact and success of all this 'provocation' - intended or otherwise.

You sure about that? What I gathered was that several contributors to this thread were more or less incredulous that the critics would even have bothered in the first place- for the precisely the reasons you've outlined.

[Duncan]

You sure about that?

Yes.

[Bloated Slutbag]

I suppose it's fair enough to reflect that no one seems to be saying anything about something that largely goes without saying. I mean, 50,000 JTCH fans can't be wrong, can they?

[Grübelschlinge]

PriceleSS:
https://nsbmboneheads.wordpress.com/

[aububs]

is yosuke konishi really a wealthy biotech chemist? wow

[FallOfNature]

I think my favourite part of that article was a bands link to nazism through taking their band name from a Nifelheim song, and Nifelheim are mates with Watain, who are nazis because a band member did a salute in a photo x amount of years ago I guess.

They couldn't of written a funnier piece if they tried.

[Andrew McIntosh]

Whole thing struck me as more stupid than funny.