I've just been reading an interview with a duo who are asked for their thoughts on the state of the P.E./industrial scene, to which they indicate they have no interest in it. This isn't the first time I've seen such disinterest, but I find it a curious notion and it almost seems a little...contrived, perhaps. Whilst I don't think obsessional fandom is a pre-requisite for making this (or any other for that matter) type of music, it comes across somewhat odd that there would be no apparent interest at all.
Is it therefore just bluster, good for defining a "fuck off" image or pretense of oneself or is it a reality that is more prevalent than I had realised? My impression of most people I see or hear making P.E./industrial is there is an amount of interest in the scene - to varying degrees and tastes, of course - so a total disconnect seems somewhat odd.
If it's the so called scene they are distancing themselves from then that's fair enough but if it's the music then that's just bullshit. Dislike and shun the scene all you like but the moment you have no love for the music it's time to fuck off.
Maybe that's it, I'm possibly overlooking a distinction between the two. In my head, I read it as "I make industrial but have no interest in it" which is more what I was driving at in the OP. I've certainly seen this sentiment too, but my original pondering probably creates two questions that can be distinguished from each other.
When I talk about scene, I'm not talking cliques, circle jerks or celebrity but I shouldn't assume that others see it in the same terms.
Stepping outside of PE/Industrial for a moment, when this topic comes up it's usually Varg Vikernes who springs to my mind first, given how emphatic he is about dismissing the last twenty five years' worth of black metal out of hand. However excellent and/or innovative the bands are, as far as I can tell no amount of past achievements will protect a band from becoming stale and stunted if they deliberately isolate themselves. To my ears all post-prison Burzum is prime evidence that no one is immune from being left behind and that active denial will only accelerate that process. I can only imagine what sort of albums he might be making now if only he had been prepared to accept that there's always something new to learn and that other, younger musicians might just have something valid to contribute after all.
So, a bit of a tangent as I don't know how much this follows for the people you're referring to here, but that's my take on this.
How about we turn this one around and ask why people should have an interest in their local scene?
I read an interview with Godflesh in Wire magazine where he said the same thing about the metal scene. Never been a fan of Godflesh and that just goes to prove my point.
I'm not a musician, but I would think that having a refined pallete in regards to musical tastes/knowledge would definitely aid an artist in putting his art into execution, perspective, context and could be a deciding factor in many ways. I've heard from a lot of bands and popular musicians that they aren't familiar with what is going on in their respective genre/scene and they want it that way so that their influences are pure and come from themselves rather then say, for example, making art that is subconsciously, unconsciously, or intentionally reactionary in the sense that the artistic creation is more of a product of it's environment or other external influences rather then pure artistic vision. Having said that, a lot of bands that do this surprisingly seem to falter, whereas some of the best bands out there wear their influences on their sleeves but do something different and original with them (the first albums of Darkthrone taking the Hellhammer/Bathory/CF style and doing something else completely new on the first few black metal albums while still maintaining those influences, brilliant).
To use another example from punk, I don't think the guys in Amebix have ANY idea what's going on in punk or metal the past 30 years. They released Sonic Mass and as pure and Ambeixish as it sounds at times, other sections of the album sound like fucking Disturbed to me. I know this wasn't intentional, as I don't think the Baron has probably ever even heard of Disturbed, but never the less....I still can't get into that album haha.
Burzum was another good example to use, he definitely has no idea how useless his current output is and that his time has come and gone, and other people are doing what he is trying to do now much more efficiently.
sound good to me lol
I guess it would largely depend on where they were located globally and what "scene" means to them. For example in the USA we are a fairly large country with many different groups of participating individuals, mostly cliques and groups of friends, so it is easily understandable to me having little interest in the local scene or functioning as an outsider in it.
I also think one could have little interest in contemporary PE/Industrial but seek to make it because of the historical influences. One could argue that contemporary acts aren't really expanding on the genre, or people once interested are now looking back rather than looking forward for influence/interest.
I think that in a lot of cases musicians or other artists will resort to these kinds of statements in order to make themselves appear more interesting, mysterious or truly opinionated which may attract more attention to their particular cause. Often it appears that people look at their own material as something truly outstanding or special - therefore they do not want to be lumped in with the rest of "the scene". A lot of these efforts can also be seen in the fact that people consistently create new genres and sub-genres as well as elaborate descriptions for their material to generate something that catches the eye and makes their output stand out in comparison to what could be considered mainstream.
I believe that a level of frustration with local groups or artistic communities plays a significant role in this context as well. Hurt feelings lead to resentment - not only of individuals but possibly also across the board.
Quote from: cantle on June 22, 2016, 03:41:00 AM
I read an interview with Godflesh in Wire magazine where he said the same thing about the metal scene. Never been a fan of Godflesh and that just goes to prove my point.
I think that's just because they consider Godflesh to be more of an industrial band than a metal band. Their recent opening acts have tended to be industrial/noise people (Prurient, Cut Hands, Pharmakon, etc.).
I look at it in the opposite way. I think there is way too much inflation in music these days. Too much awareness of genre.
Quote from: GEWALTMONOPOL on June 22, 2016, 12:24:08 AM
If it's the so called scene they are distancing themselves from then that's fair enough but if it's the music then that's just bullshit. Dislike and shun the scene all you like but the moment you have no love for the music it's time to fuck off.
.
reminds me of the famous wolfeyes "noise is death" interview...
Quote from: Brad on June 22, 2016, 07:48:10 AM
Quote from: cantle on June 22, 2016, 03:41:00 AM
I read an interview with Godflesh in Wire magazine where he said the same thing about the metal scene. Never been a fan of Godflesh and that just goes to prove my point.
I think that's just because they consider Godflesh to be more of an industrial band than a metal band. Their recent opening acts have tended to be industrial/noise people (Prurient, Cut Hands, Pharmakon, etc.).
They got their start in the metal scene by being Swans copyists no? Seems to me that they think they are better than that now.
Already so many replies, hard to focus...
I read the same interview ( I assume), and I remember talking to friend who read the same interview and we talked about it. I don't think if "own scene" means local scene, then it's just gamble. I can happily say that I am both involved and interested in Finnish scene. Country is so small, we can call it local. But I assume many people may feel completely alien in their local scene.
Their ideas, sound and interest relates to some specific time and place... and idea, other than for example local guys with funny hats organizing laptop events.
However, all the messages of veterans sort of losing perspective is easy to connect to genuine interest and involvement in scene. No matter how bitterly critical, at Whitehouse's prime years, you can see Bennett review other noise releases in KATAlogues. The times when Merzbow was writing, compiling and playing with other noise groups mark absolute essential years of Merzbow compared to days he expresses zero interest in other things than "making next recording". I don't know for sure, are there any noise bands who are better when they lost passion to listen? But my strong assumption is: NO.
I do think there is a lot similar in being stuck in "local social scene" as well as being outside everything. Both of these involve strong disinterest in seeking what is GREAT FUCKING NOISE. Wasting time on some local guys out of "obligation" and not seeking what is vital, creative and powerful at this very moment (or before). Or wasting your time on creating shit, thinking fooling around with kaoz pad and generic laptop plugins makes your work somehow noteworthy. Because lacking all ability to see what is happening out there. All being focused on fact that anything is worthy because your own cluelessness.
If you follow atleast something. Not even as obsessive fanboy, you may realize why not all local acts are worth praise, or why your own stuff needs to be go further...
I go through long periods where I dont listen to anything at all. Or I listen to oldies, Mexican stations or classical.
I don't like to listen to anything that is too similar to the type of music or sound I make. I have a fear that what I listen to will influence my playing and composition.
There is that one year when Born Against came out with that record, by the end of the year all the punk bands had similar parts in their songs.
I think this also comes up when folks listen to old recordings of projects they worked on. Especially when you are younger you tend to really wear your influences on your sleeve.
On the other hand, there are a lot of douchey fuckheads in every type of music scene. It is very easy to get burnt out on all of that.
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on June 22, 2016, 09:14:19 PM
I do think there is a lot similar in being stuck in "local social scene" as well as being outside everything. Both of these involve strong disinterest in seeking what is GREAT FUCKING NOISE. Wasting time on some local guys out of "obligation" and not seeking what is vital, creative and powerful at this very moment (or before). Or wasting your time on creating shit, thinking fooling around with kaoz pad and generic laptop plugins makes your work somehow noteworthy. Because lacking all ability to see what is happening out there. All being focused on fact that anything is worthy because your own cluelessness.
If you follow atleast something. Not even as obsessive fanboy, you may realize why not all local acts are worth praise, or why your own stuff needs to be go further...
Agreed on this part. Some people don't need to be obsessed with noise, but it's clear when there are other intentions.
I think also a lot of people notice the parroting of gear, pedal chains, etc. I once watched an industrial / noise show where all of the artists were great in their own way, but they all basically did the same set with different machines, and sometimes the machines weren't different; elektribes and various glowing orb multi effect devices, etc. The drum machine dirge, the samples of serial killers or women crying, the same synth LFO setting, etc, the same hills and valleys. It was still good, but it's not something to aspire to. Some performances are masterpieces, others are ham sandwiches.
I also think it's a matter of balance and intuition. I don't like rules or rulebooks about things that are nebulous and on a somewhat case-by-case basis. I pay attention to what I pay attention to, I steadfastly ignore the rest. I think this ties into why people do noise / industrial / PE in the first place. Some think it is about being nihilistic and not caring, or others think it is about being cynical and jaded. More and more rarely do I feel like someone is NOT doing something to scream "me too!" and be part of a group.
I personally am more in the realm of a somewhat modernist "truth/beauty/genius" kind of approach to making noise, I don't have a problem with it being called art, and this is because I am easily bored with people making sounds that I feel are unenthusiastic. If you can't be ecstatic about making a racket, you're just kind of trying to take more than you give to your audience, which is what leads to people being jaded in the first place... Like some cyclical feed of noise performance scoffing at audience scoffing at noise...
With that in mind, I am a part of a "scene", if I must call it that, to the extent that the scene contains people who are thrilling, or at least, are good to hang out with.
Speaking of being jaded, I've had 3 people that couldn't wrap their heads around finishing an email interview over the last couple of years. Did they think it was cool to do that? I don't know... with all of the instant access of this current world, I just think it is much easier to see if people care or not, whether they are "in the scene" for good intentions or not.
Quote from: NO PART OF IT on June 29, 2016, 11:48:54 AM
I personally am more in the realm of a somewhat modernist "truth/beauty/genius" kind of approach to making noise, I don't have a problem with it being called art, and this is because I am easily bored with people making sounds that I feel are unenthusiastic. If you can't be ecstatic about making a racket, you're just kind of trying to take more than you give to your audience, which is what leads to people being jaded in the first place... Like some cyclical feed of noise performance scoffing at audience scoffing at noise...
I enthusiastically agree.
I have been to a lot of shows with almost indistinguishable acts. I don't care if it is metal, punk, noise, PE or synthwave. A bunch of indentical song structures, identical gear, even dressed alike.
I expect someone to bring a minimum of conviction. I arrived at calling it an agenda. If you do not have a reason why you are making noise, you are just being a follower. If you don't have a reason why you wrote your songs, you are just going through the motions.
Lots of interesting takes here.
I'm from a small town where despite small numbers of people, there is still too much going on to keep up with. That said, lots of it isn't to my taste and falls very much under the 'dicking about with laptop and kaos pad' umbrella and I'm pretty absent at events heavy on these performers.
In any case, I'm friendly with most people here whether or not I enjoy their music, but you can tell there are several folk who only listen to any kind of experimental music or noise when playing it or watching their friends do so.
I suppose it brings about wider questions as to what function this music has for the listener: for many, it is years of fairly solitary obsession and culture whereas for others it is a strand of their social lives. Obviously I have my preferences and think the former produced things I'd rather hear, but I can't deny the presence and validity of the latter.
the only thing that will really fuck me off is when people get pissy about not being offered opportunities to play or collaborate when they rarely attend shows they aren't playing and have zero recorded work. As though the fact you make stuff is enough that you should be getting offers to do things rather than if it's any good!
re-scene.
if you are in your 50's and been to gigs for over 30years you may no longer be interested in the scene (but not me, am still happy to watch this stuff!) whilst having an awareness of what goes on.
don't know the original article referred to, but if Whitehouse, they have always taken this stance as the 'original and best' , or so my take on it is.
regarding attachment to "local" scene.
there is no local people in my area. I only meet on regular basis with 1/2 of the Occidental Congress team, period.
In Milan there are many other people involved but there is no such thing as "scene" to support. There have been attempts, but not related to nasty noise/PE, so not my cup of tea - although people involved are really nice.
There are of course a number of arguements for and against surrounding yourself with similar music and horizons can be narrowed as much as they can be broadened. For what it's worth, it wasn't a Whitehouse interview that I had read.
The original topic wasn't really a statement or question of whether one should be an active supporter or participant of one's local scene, but instead a musing on being an active contributor in this wider community that we find ourselves in whilst shutting out or dismissing said community and, what would draw one to make this kind of music (that is arguably not the most welcoming to all comers) if it is not a culture or artform that means anything to you.
Not sure that makes it any clearer but there you go!
Well, it seems to me that the wider community is still so small and it's subcategories so interconnected that to listen to music within it is to some way take part as one is essentially immersing oneself in its culture. For this reason I don't understand any kind of stance which claims a flat out rejection of the scene. I always felt as though listening and the community providing the sounds were very much linked. Inescapably so.
in many non metropolitan areas there is no scene to distance yourself from, only regional or national.
given the, worldwide, miniscule nature of this accumulation of genres, to distance yourself from all seems perverse,
but to distance from social gatherings not so.
if not Whitehouse, then still intrigued as to who.
I think we are talking about 2 different things - or at least 2 different aspects of what one would consider a "scene". There's listening to and seeking out new music/noise. That part I've never grown tired of, and I can't imagine why anyone would want to keep making noise if you're tired of listening to it.
But when I think of a scene, I'm picturing the social aspect of it, and the live performances. Basically, anything that happens outside the studio and outside the home. I have far less interest in this for several reasons; not the least of which being I'm a hermit.
Here in the states, there seem to be a few cities that have a noise scene that waxes and wanes (Houston, Milwaukee, Portland, Seattle). But at this particular moment in time, it's all very similar: all harsh noise wall, and all themed with stocking fetish, giallo films, and porn. Nothing wrong with that, but it's awfully... specific. What are the odds of everyone in the noise scene being into that exact thing right now? Seems to me it all grew out of the handful of early artists who did this particular combination of imagery and HNW (Richard Ramirez, The Rita, etc), and everyone else copied them and formed a few cliques in some locales. Maybe there is more room for variety in these scenes, I can't say. But I just don't see it. So why even try to be a part of that if you clearly don't fit the prescribed mold?
Quote from: SinkSlopProcessing on July 03, 2016, 05:35:17 AM
I think we are talking about 2 different things - or at least 2 different aspects of what one would consider a "scene". There's listening to and seeking out new music/noise. That part I've never grown tired of, and I can't imagine why anyone would want to keep making noise if you're tired of listening to it.
This was what I was driving for in the original post but probably distorted by my hamfisted way of putting it across.
Well put.
Wall Noise has always been the least imaginative and most derisive sub-genre.
The tendency of a lot of 'noise' acts to engage in the same esthetics is kind of inevitable. It seems like even in an obscure subculture there is an urge to conform and belong. I think a lot of the so called misanthropic posturing is derived from this as well.
A few early artists in noise/industrial probably were misanthropes. And a lot of acts have a fetish for sampling the voices of or cut and pasting images of people like Manson, Ramirez and so on.
Not terribly different than the metal scene in that regard.
The conformism can be kind of shocking. I remember when I saw a performance of an Oakland noise act a while ago at the long gone 40th st warehouse. The headliners had the temerity to appear on stage with an actual sampler!
All the scene snobs were so offended. How dare you bring TTET into our temple. Don't you know we only allow modulars and guitar pedals.
Gear snobbery is an entire thread of its own. How much contempt there can be over the use of laptops yet people think nothing of someone who just performed a set consisting of entire tracks dumped onto a SP 404.
I dont think the offense was that it was a sampler, so much as a sampler with black and white keys. The horror!
You have defiled the temple with the very insinuation of twelve tone equal temperament.
Generally speaking, gear snobbery is fucking stupid as is any attitude which suggests that one way of making music is 'better' or somehow more legitimate than another.
That said, there is nothing wrong with having critical faculties about you....and criticising laptops or samplers or whatever else is often just shorthand for saying 'this person is indistinguishable from 100 other people doing that with their laptop or sampler.'
Personally, nothing gets me more prepared for a snoozefest than spotting a table full of pedals and gadgets these days.
Yea, regarding gear I don't really have any dogmatic views. There are several artist that utilize computers in ways that I think are extremely interesting and just for portability sake I tend to understand. It may not be the most interesting thing visually very few things are. I find pedals to be extremely boring and tend to be lean more towards organic/acoustic material (processed or not). Even though I am a great admirer of harsh noise the overwhelming sameness of approach/sound leaves me extremely empty and I am not driven to seek out new stuff.
Quote from: GEWALTMONOPOL on July 04, 2016, 09:52:41 AM
Gear snobbery is an entire thread of its own. How much contempt there can be over the use of laptops yet people think nothing of someone who just performed a set consisting of entire tracks dumped onto a SP 404.
ditto.
we can enter the endless analog vs digital feud discussion eheh
I remember one genius on a forum talking about how if a sampler is used it should be an analogue sampler. Righto!
Back on topic. Just re-read parts of an interview with one stuck up old timer who thinks a cull in the genre is a good idea. According to him there are too many people making music today. The poor cripple just assumes he wouldn't be one of the selected against the wall for being decrepit and shit.
Quote from: GEWALTMONOPOL on July 05, 2016, 11:43:49 AM
According to him there are too many people making music today.
This is quite popular opinion. At least have been. Especially in more elitist genres. One may come to conclusion that there are some reasoning what can be understood, yet mostly bottom argument - at least between the lines - is that this person feels he isn't getting what he deserves as everybody else is stealing his possibility to blossom. Be it selling stuff, being talked about, etc.
Few times was talked with guys who have been around long, and disappointed, that industrial / noise didn't grow. That still after decades, tape sells 50 or 100. Album couple hundred. But reality is that it has grown a lot, but instead of vertical growth, it's just horizontal. Huge swamp of stuff where you can't really climb anywhere. If that reality seems disturbing, I think one may have odd expectations. It is still possible to reach quite large area of this swamp, but it requires
involvement and investing more time & energy than it seemingly gives back.
Indeed.
Dedication and effort are two main drives that far too many people tend to forget.
The feeling that you are left out or would deserve more should make you think that your stuff either suck or you are not promoting it in the proper way according to today's codes (this relating to man old farts complaining they don't get enough recognition).
Last but not least, the interest for what you are doing may be low because tastes has changed and evolved. It is not necessarily because of trends or fashion, but because there are many elements at play...
Think about the decade of neo-folk, martial industrial that basically monopolized a big slice of the pie. Not many are left of that age, and this is because probably most things you could say about the subject have been already said and only a very few remain to the joy of nostalgic like me and the horror of those who hated the pompous atmosphere and over-the-top aesthetic.
Blaming other people is always wrong. Stop moaning about other people's success and do your stuff.
Of course I get annoyed myself about certain phenomenons, especially when they create conceptual misunderstandings about something I take very seriously (see most of what was referred hipster noise, but this could work with other styles).
I think most of the time these grumpies should stop complaining on FB, and go back into underground mentality. networking, self-production, and remember that they do this mostly for themselves....
Quote from: Fluid Fetish on June 22, 2016, 03:44:29 AM
Burzum was another good example to use, he definitely has no idea how useless his current output is and that his time has come and gone, and other people are doing what he is trying to do now much more efficiently.
What do more Efficiently? To make Money, acting like a Rock Star, Focus on Mainstream Music?
Burzum never intendet to be "Just Music" and i think thats an important point to loose interest in a Scene. Many People in Black Metal (Musicians, Labelmaker and "normal" Black Metaler) lost interest in a Scene which arent "their" Scene anymore. I have had the same Situation in the Black Metal Scene, when the Mainstream Attitude overcome and the most important Part in the Scene was the Record Collection instead the Ideology in the Movement. That was a Point why i went more into Noise/Power Electronics.
The Black Metal Scene Vikernes knew went to this:
(https://image.spreadshirtmedia.net/image-server/v1/compositions/129007151/views/1,width=300,height=300,appearanceId=54,version=1438839089.jpg)
Satyricon plays now next to Fun Bands like J.B.O or Knorkator, i would asume that you won't like see Whitehouse or Genocide Organ plays as Opener for a Justin Biber Cover Band. I guess it doesn't fit well. Black Metal is just fucking drink, Party and making Money. Its Mainstream and Pop Culture in the Surface. You must Dig a lot deeper to find something good and Special.
Quote from: Goat93 on July 05, 2016, 08:13:35 PM
Quote from: Fluid Fetish on June 22, 2016, 03:44:29 AM
Burzum was another good example to use, he definitely has no idea how useless his current output is and that his time has come and gone, and other people are doing what he is trying to do now much more efficiently.
What do more Efficiently? To make Money, acting like a Rock Star, Focus on Mainstream Music?
Burzum never intendet to be "Just Music" and i think thats an important point to loose interest in a Scene. Many People in Black Metal (Musicians, Labelmaker and "normal" Black Metaler) lost interest in a Scene which arent "their" Scene anymore. I have had the same Situation in the Black Metal Scene, when the Mainstream Attitude overcome and the most important Part in the Scene was the Record Collection instead the Ideology in the Movement. That was a Point why i went more into Noise/Power Electronics.
The Black Metal Scene Vikernes knew went to this:
(https://image.spreadshirtmedia.net/image-server/v1/compositions/129007151/views/1,width=300,height=300,appearanceId=54,version=1438839089.jpg)
Satyricon plays now next to Fun Bands like J.B.O or Knorkator, i would asume that you won't like see Whitehouse or Genocide Organ plays as Opener for a Justin Biber Cover Band. I guess it doesn't fit well. Black Metal is just fucking drink, Party and making Money. Its Mainstream and Pop Culture in the Surface. You must Dig a lot deeper to find something good and Special.
No, not act like a rockstar, break through the mainstream, or make lots of money. I meant people playing his style of black metal, espousing his type of ideologies, and doing actually new and different things in the style. After Filosofem Burzum wasn't the same anymore and he wasn't the same person any more and it shows in his music because the bottom line is, he isn't a violent fucking fanatic/psychotic kid any more who created a whole different style of black metal no one had heard before along with actually practicing what he preached. He's not that kid anymore, and the times aren't the same any more obviously. Although in many ways I agree that modern black metal is a watered down and little girl version of it's former self, there are always exceptions and there are much better bands then modern Burzum (not old burzum though) in black metal today, and there are people just as out of their minds if not more so then him now walking around.
Just because all the old norweigian bands are sell out rock stars or all your friends are record collecting faggots shouldn't have ANY affect on your interest, involvement, or dedication to your passions and interests and if they do, then I almost pity you (I'm speaking generally here and not attacking you). I couldn't give less of a shit what people do with their worthless, aimless lives and it definitely does not affect my interest level or personal life beyond the surface.
This is the problem most people have it seems like. "So and so scene is full of materalists/posers/faggots/mainstream/rockstars/whatever so now I no longer have an interest. HOW DARE ALL THESE PEOPLE AND BANDS LET ME DOWN! I'm going to move onto something else....while still recording the same style of music I supposedly no longer care about". Fucking laughable in my opinion. I can respect Varg for doing what he wants to do regardless of circumstances but to whine and bitch because your precious scene let you down to me is so pathetic and shows that most people are just biproducts of their enviornment, which apparently has more of an influence on them then anything else.
Quote from: tiny_tove on July 05, 2016, 02:45:35 PM
Blaming other people is always wrong. Stop moaning about other people's.
This pretty much. Just do your own thing and enjoy your ride. Never really understand the jealousy/envy/hatred/dislike within scene's, yeah some people and cliques are shit. Who cares.
If you have time to complain, you also have time to take action.
yeah that's pretty much why I hopped off of punk rock. About around 92 or 93 it just changed from being a really wide open thing which included bands from the Butthole Surfers through to Amebix and of course all that Dischord shit.
Then overnight it was just mainstream pop punk (Green Day) or lame generic hardcore.
As far as 'tables full of gadgets', I once had to tell a date we were leaving because the headliners had a microkorg. Yeah I'm that guy. I judge and act as kind of not giving a damn about their sound if they are just using gimmicky toys like that. If they were serious about having keys in their act they would get a real keyboard like a Rhodes. If they were sincere about having synths, they would get legit synths like, well any one of the solid, programmable synths that have flexible, expressive architectures.
The Microkorg is just a piece of trash made to be sold at Guitar Center and Sam Ash.
Of course trying to explain all that was a bit much so I just said 'because these guys are fucking poseurs'. Later it turned out they were some Brooklyn famous hipster band. Good call.
But I've also seen some people do well with a pile of noisemakers and pedals.
Quote from: Duncan on June 30, 2016, 12:56:03 PM
In any case, I'm friendly with most people here whether or not I enjoy their music, but you can tell there are several folk who only listen to any kind of experimental music or noise when playing it or watching their friends do so.
This is one of the things that seems mythical to me. I don't know anyone that fits this category. I do not know a single noise artist that is only listening to noise that they or their friends do. Whether or not they are buying it is another matter. I experience some cliquey-ness, but in that I entirely don't blame them. I am not nearly as keen on doing shows with strangers as I used to be. BUT I wouldn't say that those people never listen to noise outside of their friends' material.
And this is going back to the "laptop/kaos pad" assertion, I have almost never seen this. The people I have seen use a laptop, either A; used it as less than 50% of their total set, and/or B: absolutely killed it, like for instance X Terminal (whom I have only seen on youtube, but met a few times), Cornucopia, and Brain Transplant. The only exception for me is John Wiese, that is the only noise artist that has done absolutely nothing for me up to this point, and only used a laptop, but he's obviously got some diverse approaches, at least in terms of now working with ensembles and whatnot, and the "scene credentials" to have achieved what he has achieved.
I just think it's funny how things are divided so much. For instance, I don't even know how to go about knowing all of the musique concret/academic people in my town. I can subscribe to their email lists individually, or I can hope to hear about it happening at some museum, or occasionally a DIY art space, but there is no "noise scene" for them, that I'm aware of, it's just a bunch of people hustling and schmoozing with art spaces, so far as I can tell.
I am all for shows that are extremely diverse; synth wizards, academics, PE, Industrial, Noise, Harsh Noise, Dark Ambient, Sound Collage/cut ups, etc. I would even throw in some metal, synth pop, "power noise", free jazz, noise rock, etc. Instead, what I see happening is a ghettoization of people wanting everything to be the same, thinking they have the formula for sincerity or "good noise", or otherwise, the connection to the "source", whether it is nostalgia or gear configurations or what have you.
I personally would love to see Ilhan Mimaroglu come back from the dead and play with a laptop. So far as I can tell, his last current (not previously unreleased etc) album was in 1983. I love seeing Morton Subotnick with a laptop. It's a matter of what people do with it that is different and exciting but most importantly, you can tell that they are presenting concepts that are also exciting to them, not marketing schemes or being simply "obnoxiously ambitious".
I still find the noise "scene" to be a break from the gear elitism of rock/metal scenes, where things are dynamic and constantly moving. I still feel like experimental sound is the only thing that can really break ground in this period of time, but part of that distinction is understanding that people have to start somewhere, and especially now, sometimes they start with their laptop ("hipster noise" as it were), and because of all of the "workshop" type of noise artists who seem more interested in making weird sounds than doing something that is not boring with them, some people become tired of looking for the things that actually thrill them, especially when you have entire shows that sound considerably similar.
I have recently come to a point where I can't take people seriously when they say they "only buy tapes", maybe a predisposition to vinyl is understandable, but to me this is more a level of merchandising than enthusiasm. I still buy anything by an artist that I'm into. I do not understand format problems.
To sum up, I don't know what interview this is in regard to, but if they don't make enough money to live on, chances are they are still listening to noise that isn't what they produce, it's just that they don't have time for the overwhelming amount of divisiveness, with regard to quality, openness/too many sloppy/boring artists, elitism, and what-have-you. Chances are, unless they're Merzbow, they are still, even if they are not listening to "the scene", are listening to things around them for inspiration to keep doing what they're doing, probably also some experimental sounds, even if it is a synth intro to a depressive/suicidal metal album, especially if they continue to do noise even though they can't make a living at it. I'm sure whoever said it, would like to be perceived as an "empty vessel" who generates ideas on their own, and maybe they are. I doubt it, though.
Quote from: Fluid Fetish on July 05, 2016, 09:30:37 PM
No, not act like a rockstar, break through the mainstream, or make lots of money. I meant people playing his style of black metal, espousing his type of ideologies, and doing actually new and different things in the style. After Filosofem Burzum wasn't the same anymore and he wasn't the same person any more and it shows in his music because the bottom line is, he isn't a violent fucking fanatic/psychotic kid any more who created a whole different style of black metal no one had heard before along with actually practicing what he preached. He's not that kid anymore, and the times aren't the same any more obviously. Although in many ways I agree that modern black metal is a watered down and little girl version of it's former self, there are always exceptions and there are much better bands then modern Burzum (not old burzum though) in black metal today, and there are people just as out of their minds if not more so then him now walking around.
Just because all the old norweigian bands are sell out rock stars or all your friends are record collecting faggots shouldn't have ANY affect on your interest, involvement, or dedication to your passions and interests and if they do, then I almost pity you (I'm speaking generally here and not attacking you). I couldn't give less of a shit what people do with their worthless, aimless lives and it definitely does not affect my interest level or personal life beyond the surface.
This is the problem most people have it seems like. "So and so scene is full of materalists/posers/faggots/mainstream/rockstars/whatever so now I no longer have an interest. HOW DARE ALL THESE PEOPLE AND BANDS LET ME DOWN! I'm going to move onto something else....while still recording the same style of music I supposedly no longer care about". Fucking laughable in my opinion. I can respect Varg for doing what he wants to do regardless of circumstances but to whine and bitch because your precious scene let you down to me is so pathetic and shows that most people are just biproducts of their enviornment, which apparently has more of an influence on them then anything else.
Funny that you mention since Filosofem, since most People back then talk about Burzums Death with this Album. I think you misunderstood me. I won't talk about any People letting me or anyone else down, the Ideology< of the Scene changed so Dramatically that i can't identify me with it for some Time. And to try to change this Ideology is like Attacking Windmills. We#re talking about the "Scene" in generell and not only my or your Living Room. Maybe better to understand, imagine you went to a Event with Flyers full of "Industrial, Noise, Power Eelctronics" and in the End the Music is just Dancefloor Techno with some Wannabe Goths. Since there are some rally good Noise Events you drive to it and of 10 Events 8 are with Dancefloor and 2 are with Noise. At a Point you loose interest to invest Money, Time and Nerves to get 2 good and 8 Shit Events and you look for something else or make your own Event. Its not the Music, its the Attitude and the Image where changed to Directions the People can't stand anymore. So you look for something which fits better than hanging out with a bunch of idiots, cause you drive yourself into the borders of a "Scene".
burzum's new records are still good actually
I think especially in the midwest, people are caught either trying too hard, or not trying hard enough. I think as a "noise artist" or whatnot, it's good to be in the middle of that, with one foot in the stone age and one foot in the modern age. Other people have different opinions about it. And people are different. Merzbow may have arguably done his best work when he was involved in the scene, but his work still stands apart, and didn't follow a model too closely.
Gear snobbery... laptops... iron junk... kaosspads... digital vs. anal-log...
IMHO, talented ones can make good results out of anything. Period.
Quote from: NO PART OF IT on July 13, 2016, 05:43:49 PM
I think especially in the midwest, people are caught either trying too hard, or not trying hard enough.
Oh you get those ailments in the Bay Area or NY as well.
But in my personal experience some of the more interesting developments in music have occurred in cultural backwaters.
A lot of the more individualistic punk and industrial acts evolved in the middle of nowhere (relatively speaking at least).
Where the more mob mentality of such acts sounding all the same seems to be a problem in major metro areas.
I think it's a problem that you can have a whole specialized little subscene in NY or SF for example that just specializes in horror grind or electro-industrial or whatever.
When you are out in the sticks, everyone plays at the same place, and they all go to each others shows.
Which I think actually kind of fosters a suburban polyamory of music influences.
Too bad there is never any good place to eat in the suburbs.
Too bad there is never any good place to eat in the suburbs.
from prev entry-according to those yank foodshows you can't move for suburban food places
Quote from: calaverasgrande on July 17, 2016, 11:01:35 PM
Quote from: NO PART OF IT on July 13, 2016, 05:43:49 PM
I think especially in the midwest, people are caught either trying too hard, or not trying hard enough.
When you are out in the sticks, everyone plays at the same place, and they all go to each others shows.
Which I think actually kind of fosters a suburban polyamory of music influences.
I have only ever experienced this in South Bend, Indiana. I would like to see more of it.
Quote from: NO PART OF IT on July 20, 2016, 03:46:39 AM
Quote from: calaverasgrande on July 17, 2016, 11:01:35 PM
Quote from: NO PART OF IT on July 13, 2016, 05:43:49 PM
I think especially in the midwest, people are caught either trying too hard, or not trying hard enough.
When you are out in the sticks, everyone plays at the same place, and they all go to each others shows.
Which I think actually kind of fosters a suburban polyamory of music influences.
I have only ever experienced this in South Bend, Indiana. I would like to see more of it.
I've lived all over the country. Deep South, Northern CA, New York. I've also been in a few bands that have toured somewhat. It's one of those things that kind of blows you away when you are driving across country. Of course there was a good turnout in Oakland or Brooklyn. But when you get to some suburb in the middle of nowhere and it's not only a significant crowd, but a more diverse crowd. It really points up that in major metro areas we tribalize and self segregate into these little uh,
special interest groups.
I admire that in a way, but I'm a vegan (30 years!) and I like to eat interesting Asian food. There are no vegan asian restaurants in you average American suburb. Also not a lot of modular synthesizer stores.
On the plus side, the thrift stores are more likely to have actual musical instruments and stuff.