C10 noise Why bother.

[Zeno Marx]

Production of audio/video tape has long been said to be a toxic process.  I worked in a plant that used a process on coating raw steel where one byproduct was a powder that they then sold to BASF to produce tape.  It was a byproduct of lye.  Everything about that situation was bad news.  Not good for us employees, transportation and storage of toxic chemicals, and who knows what else.  I can't imagine it gets better down the line.  But so is the manufacturing of the CD/DVDR medium.  Highly toxic stuff.  If it is a concern to a person...IF...if that is something in your realm of worry, files might be the only medium with a small footprint.  Not making an argument here, but all the plastics we use in this pastime are on the negative side of manufacturing and carbon footprint when you consider weight, shipping, etc.

I don't care for C-10s, but I never liked noise/experimental 7"s either.  I have maybe a dozen boxes of 7"s and only maybe 1/2 box of noise 7"s.  With a punk background, I'm not sure why that is.  It should probably be the opposite with that in mind.  I'm guessing with some of us, it comes from history and habit.  As a kid, I'd plant myself in front of the stereo and deep dive into the cover, lyrics, and notes of LPs.  Total immersion.  We didn't have any 7"s around the house, and when I got of age to buy my own music, it was always albums.  From the beginning, I've been most satisfied with 30+ minutes.  Learned behavior?  Probably, at least in significant part.

I get the logic behind:  best editing, best material, most focus, and all that jazz about short releases like 7"s and C-10s, but beyond that rational explanation, I don't really buy into that philosophy.  If that's your model, cool.  Like with Masonna using the pop song as a model for short tracks.  There's something suspect about that for me.  I'm not sure I would limit my argument to "if you can do 10 minutes, why can't you take another X amount of months and do 40 minutes?", but that is part of it.  In 2019, I'm surprised everything isn't four minutes and out.  The attention span of gnats.  maybe we can thank bandcamp and soundcloud for that?  I don't know.  Or the vinyl "revolution" in battle with the phone?

[FiEND]

NAC is now producing what they call "super ferric."

i've heard tale the stuff is shit quality with the magnetic layer flaking off the plastic tape.

[PTM Jim]

Like what - is the planet gonna run out of super rare chrome dioxide? I don't know where this rumor comes from.

From what I understand, producing it causes some kind of heavily toxic byproduct that is no longer passing emissions standards. That's why Russia doesn't make it anymore and that's why NAC is now producing what they call "super ferric." It's apparently better quality that chrome, or so they've said. 

What's your source on that? I've never heard the toxicity being substantiated as a reason why plants seized production. More of like a costly process to synthesize the crystals that wasn't feasible in multiple locations.

I either read it somewhere (no recollection of where/when) or I was told that while talking to Steve at NAC. Either way I didn't just pull it out of thin air.

i've heard tale the stuff is shit quality with the magnetic layer flaking off the plastic tape.

I don't know because I haven't ordered any of it yet.

[deutscheasphalt]

I either read it somewhere (no recollection of where/when) or I was told that while talking to Steve at NAC. Either way I didn't just pull it out of thin air.

Gotcha. Not accusing you of talking shit or anything; was just curious if you had a more reliable source than "I heard it from someone". Cause I heard it from people all over and never any saw any articles on it or had problems getting chrome tapes ever. But maybe one day there will be a lot of money to be made on ebay selling chrome tapes...

[slagfrenzy tapes]

My assumption for reason that old noise releases are so long, was mainly that stores were selling C-60 and C-90. So bands and labels put out tapes of those lengths. C-45 were way more rare to find.

As soon as shorter tapes were easier available, there were being done.

Thanks, I think... You let a deeply buried hatred memory to bubble to the surface.
It's possible that noise people's were reusing an easily obtained format.
It's the reason for my hatred of C10's, and the word is................................................................................................. CASSINGLE.

[D. Davis]

I started a label early this year to basically put out C-10's. At the time I mainly thought of it as a fucking 45...flip the thing - jam another blaster and on and on. Lots of other benefits. They are cheap as all get out shipped here. Like seventy bucks for a hundred count box. I bag em up Slaughter style with cover and inserts and I got like a buck in the thing. I don't believe that the artists I have asked to contribute feel any sort of pressure editing up two five minute fire sides. Quick to home dub. I make a grip and send the artists half. Seems like a win / win for both parties. Also once I did the first one I've never had to put any personal dough back into doing the next ones.

Check the vibes. WORKING MAN LAY DOWN
https://www.discogs.com/label/1603923-Working-Man-Lay-Down

[WhiteWarlock]

c10 would be way easier making into endless tape loop...
and hacking together musique concrete on cassette
Are they the screw or glue type shells??? most likely Glue.................
the previous poster is completely correct they were/are used for "Singles"

[HateSermon]

C20 is the perfect length, in my opinion. It takes a lot for me to listen to anything more than a C30 but that's usually because I like to listen to the whole release in one sitting.
I'm all for C10, so long as the price is right and the quality is there.

Different genre, but I bought a C5 from my friend's power violence band. Ridiculous, yes, but fuck it, why not? I didn't know they made such short tapes.

[slagfrenzy tapes]

Yep that's great, how often did do you play it...
Cassingles were supposed to be listened more than once.. . Program repeats on the other side...

I'm older than something... Has your attention gotta that short???
Not trolling, serious question, why can't you go beyond 30 minutes for a single situation...??

[FiEND]

Yep that's great, how often did do you play it...
Cassingles were supposed to be listened more than once.. . Program repeats on the other side...

I'm older than something... Has your attention gotta that short???
Not trolling, serious question, why can't you go beyond 30 minutes for a single situation...??

my mother only collected 45s. my father only LPs. now they just listen to satellite radio. tastes vary and change. is this a difficult concept for you?

[andy vomit]

C20 is the perfect length, in my opinion. It takes a lot for me to listen to anything more than a C30 but that's usually because I like to listen to the whole release in one sitting.
I'm all for C10, so long as the price is right and the quality is there.

Different genre, but I bought a C5 from my friend's power violence band. Ridiculous, yes, but fuck it, why not? I didn't know they made such short tapes.

TDSOGF and Cock ESP put out a split C5 a ways back https://www.discogs.com/Twodeadsluts-Onegoodfuck-Cock-ESP-Twodeadsluts-Onegoodfuck-Cock-ESP/release/1929745

[FiEND]

C20 is the perfect length, in my opinion. It takes a lot for me to listen to anything more than a C30 but that's usually because I like to listen to the whole release in one sitting.
I'm all for C10, so long as the price is right and the quality is there.

Different genre, but I bought a C5 from my friend's power violence band. Ridiculous, yes, but fuck it, why not? I didn't know they made such short tapes.

TDSOGF and Cock ESP put out a split C5 a ways back https://www.discogs.com/Twodeadsluts-Onegoodfuck-Cock-ESP-Twodeadsluts-Onegoodfuck-Cock-ESP/release/1929745

i'll see you're C5 and raise you a C2
https://www.discogs.com/Coward-Electronics-Sitar-Solo/release/4719817

[HateSermon]

C20 is the perfect length, in my opinion. It takes a lot for me to listen to anything more than a C30 but that's usually because I like to listen to the whole release in one sitting.
I'm all for C10, so long as the price is right and the quality is there.

Different genre, but I bought a C5 from my friend's power violence band. Ridiculous, yes, but fuck it, why not? I didn't know they made such short tapes.

TDSOGF and Cock ESP put out a split C5 a ways back https://www.discogs.com/Twodeadsluts-Onegoodfuck-Cock-ESP-Twodeadsluts-Onegoodfuck-Cock-ESP/release/1929745

i'll see you're C5 and raise you a C2
https://www.discogs.com/Coward-Electronics-Sitar-Solo/release/4719817

Damn, unreal.

[Potier]

C20 is the perfect length, in my opinion. It takes a lot for me to listen to anything more than a C30 but that's usually because I like to listen to the whole release in one sitting.
I'm all for C10, so long as the price is right and the quality is there.

Different genre, but I bought a C5 from my friend's power violence band. Ridiculous, yes, but fuck it, why not? I didn't know they made such short tapes.

TDSOGF and Cock ESP put out a split C5 a ways back https://www.discogs.com/Twodeadsluts-Onegoodfuck-Cock-ESP-Twodeadsluts-Onegoodfuck-Cock-ESP/release/1929745

i'll see you're C5 and raise you a C2
https://www.discogs.com/Coward-Electronics-Sitar-Solo/release/4719817

Damn, unreal.

https://www.discogs.com/Cock-ESP-You-Know-What-They-Say-About-Guys-With-Short-Sets/release/2120841

Here's a C1 - 30 seconds each side - captures a live-performance. I seem to recall there being a time when C1-releases were not uncommon. If you think that there are bands in like grindcore, power violence etc. whose entire discography is maybe like 20 minutes...1 minute releases seem appropriate...whatever floats your boat is what it is.

[Cementimental]

I have a small box of C1 and (i think) C0'30" cassettes which i'll actually think of something to do with one day :D They actually have Chrome tape in them for added ridiculousness

tried to use one at high speed in my 4 track and the end of the tape came off the spool tho