Gatekeepers act as if they still matter

[PTM Jim]

It was inevitable that current identity politics enter the noise scene as they have every other music scene. I'm actually surprised noise seemed to be a free-for-all playing field for so long. But I guess in the end everything is political, even noise and who you choose to collaborate, play or do business with. Especially if a person is actively involved in fringe politics, rather than just releasing artists who have controversial political opnions and perhaps having personal opinions on the matter. I'm personally really fed up with right wingers and anarchist activists bringing their political strife to music and gigs. I wish noise could just concentrate on itself rather than these tiresome social games.

it may be tiresome after so long, but to be fair its also the best working effect to get people into the noise scene. just noise doesn't work too well and the mathematic/technical/art side doesn't get also much people into the scene. Depend whats better, nearly no listeners or a lot of stupid attitudes from idiotic listeners

More people coming in for the most annoying and wrong reasons is much worse than them not coming in at all. Numbers aren't a good thing just because they are numbers.

[Commander15]

It was inevitable that current identity politics enter the noise scene as they have every other music scene. I'm actually surprised noise seemed to be a free-for-all playing field for so long. But I guess in the end everything is political, even noise and who you choose to collaborate, play or do business with. Especially if a person is actively involved in fringe politics, rather than just releasing artists who have controversial political opnions and perhaps having personal opinions on the matter. I'm personally really fed up with right wingers and anarchist activists bringing their political strife to music and gigs. I wish noise could just concentrate on itself rather than these tiresome social games.

it may be tiresome after so long, but to be fair its also the best working effect to get people into the noise scene. just noise doesn't work too well and the mathematic/technical/art side doesn't get also much people into the scene. Depend whats better, nearly no listeners or a lot of stupid attitudes from idiotic listeners

More people coming in for the most annoying and wrong reasons is much worse than them not coming in at all. Numbers aren't a good thing just because they are numbers.

Agreed. Quality over quantity every time.

[Andrew McIntosh]

It was inevitable that current identity politics enter the noise scene as they have every other music scene.

We've seen this kind of thing before, with the whole "hipster noise" ballyhoo that happened in the 2000's. It must be generational.

[DrRichard]

There is something comical in the fact of being rejected, because we release music online only, by ... webzines.

[PuddysJacket]

It was inevitable that current identity politics enter the noise scene as they have every other music scene.

We've seen this kind of thing before, with the whole "hipster noise" ballyhoo that happened in the 2000's. It must be generational.

I stopped going to shows in NYC for this reason. Everyone is either obese or khazarian or has gender dysphoria. Sometimes all 3.

[Yvette]

Don't get it twisted.

It's a class war NOT a culture war.

[Commander15]

It was inevitable that current identity politics enter the noise scene as they have every other music scene.

We've seen this kind of thing before, with the whole "hipster noise" ballyhoo that happened in the 2000's. It must be generational.

I think this recent phenomenon is bit different as it seem to be more about forcing certain fixed sets of values, worldviews and political stances to already existing scene than really contributing and creating in postive meaning.

[Andrew McIntosh]

I think this recent phenomenon is bit different as it seem to be more about forcing certain fixed sets of values, worldviews and political stances to already existing scene than really contributing and creating in postive meaning.

I think the similarities are that both phenomena are people trying to make Noise more culturally respectable and acceptable, for their respective times. Both are certainly more acceptable to music crits, for example.

[chryptusrecords]

so is Mark Solotroff doing AWB "idpol"? is that acceptable because it's "transgressive"? if Commander 15 has had this certain experience with Finnish hardcore kids or whatever, it is not a realistic analysis to say something like "THE noise scene" is being afflicted by this. you have a certain perception of some alleged people trying to "force" values onto noise. my experience is that nobody outside of noise gives a shit about this. who's correct?

edit: if a new kid were getting into noise RIGHT NOW, it would be way easier for them to hear about and get releases from Satatuhatta rather than Filth and Violence. Does this mean the hardcore kids have won their ideological battle? did they force Vilho to release all that stuff with colorful artwork? or is it more likely people have always had different tastes and perspectives, and "the noise scene" isn't an ideological monolith?

[host body]

edit: if a new kid were getting into noise RIGHT NOW, it would be way easier for them to hear about and get releases from Satatuhatta rather than Filth and Violence. Does this mean the hardcore kids have won their ideological battle? did they force Vilho to release all that stuff with colorful artwork? or is it more likely people have always had different tastes and perspectives, and "the noise scene" isn't an ideological monolith?

Yeah, I mean "vile shit" has always been a pretty big theme in noise but far from the only, or even prevalent the or aesthetic. And I know no one forced Satatuhatta to do anything, it's all Vilho and the artists he works with.

[brutalist_tapes]

it seems like filth and violence was definitely forced further underground in some way, but on the other hand, with material so extreme it should be expected. not trying to justify censorship here, just being realistic. its the curse of the internet i guess, f&v could probably have had operated just fine in the 90s or something, when only people actually into noise knew about it. but i don't think the greater publics reaction would have been any different in the 80s if they were to discover stuff like mauthausen orchestra...

[Commander15]

so is Mark Solotroff doing AWB "idpol"? is that acceptable because it's "transgressive"? if Commander 15 has had this certain experience with Finnish hardcore kids or whatever, it is not a realistic analysis to say something like "THE noise scene" is being afflicted by this. you have a certain perception of some alleged people trying to "force" values onto noise. my experience is that nobody outside of noise gives a shit about this. who's correct?

edit: if a new kid were getting into noise RIGHT NOW, it would be way easier for them to hear about and get releases from Satatuhatta rather than Filth and Violence. Does this mean the hardcore kids have won their ideological battle? did they force Vilho to release all that stuff with colorful artwork? or is it more likely people have always had different tastes and perspectives, and "the noise scene" isn't an ideological monolith?

Well my takes here are mainly based on my observations of some recent noise related polemics here in Finland. It may or may not be possible to observe similar kind of development in other countries as well. If not, that's great.

That edit of yours is nonsensical and straw man-y. I didn't claim anything like that in my previous posts.

[chryptusrecords]

forcing certain fixed sets of values, worldviews and political stances to already existing scene  

this is what i'm referring to. who is doing this "forcing?" where does it manifest? what are the values of this "existing scene" that are being "forced" out?

i didnt mean to be straw manning your point, my questions are more general, when our small scene crashes up against other scenes or even bigger culture, it is a chance to reflect on what makes noise 'unique.' we shouldn't shy away from the ill-informed perception of outsiders if we're publishing works and releasing them into the world. "the scene" is porous  

edit, again: we either have control, or proliferation, just like with nuclear weapons!

[chryptusrecords]

this is only tangentially related, but there is a lot of artistic credibility to be siphoned out of noise for opportunistic so and so's. There are plenty of negative polemics to be written by people looking for their next gig! perhaps this is due to so much of the discussion of noise and industrial history happens in semi-private, informal ways, like this forum. the 'perception' of noise is yet to be firmly established, unlike say hardcore punk which has definite connotations. the downside of this is something like those academic or journalistic books that try to write the 'history of noise' and end up being full of obvious oversights and simplistic analysis.

[Commander15]

forcing certain fixed sets of values, worldviews and political stances to already existing scene  

this is what i'm referring to. who is doing this "forcing?" where does it manifest? what are the values of this "existing scene" that are being "forced" out?

i didnt mean to be straw manning your point, my questions are more general, when our small scene crashes up against other scenes or even bigger culture, it is a chance to reflect on what makes noise 'unique.' we shouldn't shy away from the ill-informed perception of outsiders if we're publishing works and releasing them into the world. "the scene" is porous  

edit, again: we either have control, or proliferation, just like with nuclear weapons!

In these cases that i'm referring to, the forcing party would be hc-punk related group of more or less anonymous, self-proclaimed anarchists and antifascists with somewhat limited knowledge of noise and industrial culture in general. In these cases Finnish noise scene and several artists working within were accused of entryism or normalizing fascism because their "connections" within the noise scene. Pretty quickly discourse changed into how noise scene should be "cleansed" etc. etc.

I think that the main values, that are being forced out, is the pluralism within the noise and
artistic expressions and relationships that doesn't fit in the dualistic, partisan "pure/unpure" or "fascist/antifascist" worldview of this certain crowd.