What are you reading

[cantle]

Just finished New Juche - Mountain head. Loved it: a surreal, erotic yet melancholic travel guide to places both internal and external

[Atrophist]

Sorry to go off topic (and also to ask an easily-Googlable question -- I'd prefer to discuss this with an actual person/persons), but ...

What exactly is "hauntology"?

I've heard the term here and there, but I have the vague impression that doesn't just mean "study of hauntings" ... or does it?

I've also given a Hauntologist record a casual spin online, but didn't really delve into the matter in any depth.

[Balor/SS1535]

Sorry to go off topic (and also to ask an easily-Googlable question -- I'd prefer to discuss this with an actual person/persons), but ...

What exactly is "hauntology"?

I've heard the term here and there, but I have the vague impression that doesn't just mean "study of hauntings" ... or does it?

I've also given a Hauntologist record a casual spin online, but didn't really delve into the matter in any depth.

Hauntology is a sort of semi-academic "field" that was created by Jacques Derrida when talking about the remains of Marxism in Europe (sort of taking the "specter haunting Europe" part of The Communist Manifesto semi-literally).  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specters_of_Marx

Since the publication of that book, however, hauntology has sort of become it's own thing.  It builds upon Derrida's general concern for understanding how that which is "not present" is impactful upon that which is present, but adds a specific concern about studying how the traumas, unresolved dreams, and other aborted possibilities from the past continue to "haunt" the world today.  (In this regard, it was developed a lot by Mark Fisher, who also spearheaded its explicit connection to music: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Fisher)

Long story short, though, it's not the study of hauntings in the sense of ghosts or spirits, but the study of how the past continues to seep into the present and determine it in ways that are often missed or ignored.  At least, that's my general understanding.

[Atrophist]

Hauntology is a sort of semi-academic "field" that was created by Jacques Derrida when talking about the remains of Marxism in Europe (sort of taking the "specter haunting Europe" part of The Communist Manifesto semi-literally).  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specters_of_Marx

Since the publication of that book, however, hauntology has sort of become it's own thing.  It builds upon Derrida's general concern for understanding how that which is "not present" is impactful upon that which is present, but adds a specific concern about studying how the traumas, unresolved dreams, and other aborted possibilities from the past continue to "haunt" the world today.  (In this regard, it was developed a lot by Mark Fisher, who also spearheaded its explicit connection to music: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Fisher)

Long story short, though, it's not the study of hauntings in the sense of ghosts or spirits, but the study of how the past continues to seep into the present and determine it in ways that are often missed or ignored.  At least, that's my general understanding.

Okay that makes sense. Thanks for the thoughtful explanation!

For the longest time I've harbored a mild-to-medium antipathy to Derrida and his like -- which is probably unfair, since I actually know and understand very little about their actual work and what they had to say.

I'm old enough to remember the days when at the U of Helsinki everyone who wanted to seem sophisticated, would namedrop Derrida, Baudrillard etc. every three minutes. And of course, imitate their writing, which would always seem to result in incomprehensible, meaningless gobbledygook.

Derrida came to the university once for a guest lecture, and I must have been the only person in the department of humanities who wasn't jockeying for a seat in the Porthania auditorium. Later I asked folks what the lecture had been about, didn't really get any clear answers except that it had been the most brilliant, amazing thing ever.

As a contrarian, all this caused me disgust, and (again, quite possible unfairly) to these days I've neglected to give this stuff an objective, fair reading.

[Balor/SS1535]

Hauntology is a sort of semi-academic "field" that was created by Jacques Derrida when talking about the remains of Marxism in Europe (sort of taking the "specter haunting Europe" part of The Communist Manifesto semi-literally).  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specters_of_Marx

Since the publication of that book, however, hauntology has sort of become it's own thing.  It builds upon Derrida's general concern for understanding how that which is "not present" is impactful upon that which is present, but adds a specific concern about studying how the traumas, unresolved dreams, and other aborted possibilities from the past continue to "haunt" the world today.  (In this regard, it was developed a lot by Mark Fisher, who also spearheaded its explicit connection to music: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Fisher)

Long story short, though, it's not the study of hauntings in the sense of ghosts or spirits, but the study of how the past continues to seep into the present and determine it in ways that are often missed or ignored.  At least, that's my general understanding.

Okay that makes sense. Thanks for the thoughtful explanation!

For the longest time I've harbored a mild-to-medium antipathy to Derrida and his like -- which is probably unfair, since I actually know and understand very little about their actual work and what they had to say.

I'm old enough to remember the days when at the U of Helsinki everyone who wanted to seem sophisticated, would namedrop Derrida, Baudrillard etc. every three minutes. And of course, imitate their writing, which would always seem to result in incomprehensible, meaningless gobbledygook.

Derrida came to the university once for a guest lecture, and I must have been the only person in the department of humanities who wasn't jockeying for a seat in the Porthania auditorium. Later I asked folks what the lecture had been about, didn't really get any clear answers except that it had been the most brilliant, amazing thing ever.

As a contrarian, all this caused me disgust, and (again, quite possible unfairly) to these days I've neglected to give this stuff an objective, fair reading.

ha---glad that didn't come across as obscure, weird, etc.

I've also learned the hard way that there is a huge difference between many of these critical theorists/philosophers and the people who idolize them like some sort of celebrities.  Derrida, I think, has a lot of very interesting ideas about the world and culture that has a lot in common (or at least things that potentially support) some of the more theoretically minded aspects of industrial culture.  But you are totally right about those students and other wannabes who try to imitate them---those types tend to be some of the most arrogant and insufferable people I have ever had the misfortune to spend my time around!

[host body]

Does anyone have any recommendations for literature with an old school industrial / neofolk aesthetic? I don't mean politically, but maybe set in the ruins of Europe or Japan and with a melancholic, esoteric and dark feel to it? I have read Celine and Ernst Junger, but maybe looking for something more mystical an vague rather than memoirs.

[Balor/SS1535]

Does anyone have any recommendations for literature with an old school industrial / neofolk aesthetic? I don't mean politically, but maybe set in the ruins of Europe or Japan and with a melancholic, esoteric and dark feel to it? I have read Celine and Ernst Junger, but maybe looking for something more mystical an vague rather than memoirs.

Perhaps Curzio Malaparte's Kaputt.  Technically a memoir, but largely invented.  At points a journey through hell.  I think that Vladimir Sorokin might also work here.

For Japan, Mishima would be the writer to check out.  Perhaps also Osamu Dazai's No Longer Human.

You might also be interested in some of Heidegger's later essays, such as "Building Dwelling Thinking."

Maybe also Beckett and Ionesco?

[host body]

Thanks, I have read most of Mishima's books and that Dazai book, all excellent. Will check out the rest, any specific books you'd recommend from Beckett or Ionesco that would have that atmosphere? Beckett I know, but haven't read.

[Balor/SS1535]

Thanks, I have read most of Mishima's books and that Dazai book, all excellent. Will check out the rest, any specific books you'd recommend from Beckett or Ionesco that would have that atmosphere? Beckett I know, but haven't read.

For Ionesco, check out The Lesson, which is funny but also increasingly dark as the story progresses.

I'm not too familiar with Beckett aside from some general awareness of his aesthetic and interests.  I just read Krapp's Last Tape, but I understand there is a sort of post-war apocalypticism throughout many of his classic works---such as Waiting for Godot and Endgame.

Reading through more stuff about Beckett, I am also reminded of Artaud, who could also be of interest in this context.

[host body]

Thanks, I have read most of Mishima's books and that Dazai book, all excellent. Will check out the rest, any specific books you'd recommend from Beckett or Ionesco that would have that atmosphere? Beckett I know, but haven't read.

For Ionesco, check out The Lesson, which is funny but also increasingly dark as the story progresses.

I'm not too familiar with Beckett aside from some general awareness of his aesthetic and interests.  I just read Krapp's Last Tape, but I understand there is a sort of post-war apocalypticism throughout many of his classic works---such as Waiting for Godot and Endgame.

Reading through more stuff about Beckett, I am also reminded of Artaud, who could also be of interest in this context.

Thank you, will check those out!

I wonder if Japan has more writers with this sort of feel to them since the whole culture was really traumatized by the war and it's still very noticeable. Like Godzilla and Akira and both kind of have this same vibe, even if it's not what I'm looking for now.

[NedOik]

Thanks, I have read most of Mishima's books and that Dazai book, all excellent. Will check out the rest, any specific books you'd recommend from Beckett or Ionesco that would have that atmosphere? Beckett I know, but haven't read.

For Ionesco, check out The Lesson, which is funny but also increasingly dark as the story progresses.

I'm not too familiar with Beckett aside from some general awareness of his aesthetic and interests.  I just read Krapp's Last Tape, but I understand there is a sort of post-war apocalypticism throughout many of his classic works---such as Waiting for Godot and Endgame.

Reading through more stuff about Beckett, I am also reminded of Artaud, who could also be of interest in this context.

Thank you, will check those out!

I wonder if Japan has more writers with this sort of feel to them since the whole culture was really traumatized by the war and it's still very noticeable. Like Godzilla and Akira and both kind of have this same vibe, even if it's not what I'm looking for now.

First things that spring to mind I will put forward without thinking too much. One easy to get and the other difficult. Former is 'City Sister Silver' by Jachym Topol, apparently written mostly in Czech slang and impossible to translate (I read it in English) but they did it anyway. Quasi cyberpunk meets Stalker vibe in post Communist drug infested hellscape with lots of wandering stream of consciousness dialogue. Latter is 'Sublimes' and 'Sky Above Hell' by Yuri Mamleev, I seen these categorised as "post-humanistic" and "mystical depravity", I cannot put it better than that. Books are hard to get in English but reasonably not in French (which I read them in).

[Balor/SS1535]

Thanks, I have read most of Mishima's books and that Dazai book, all excellent. Will check out the rest, any specific books you'd recommend from Beckett or Ionesco that would have that atmosphere? Beckett I know, but haven't read.

For Ionesco, check out The Lesson, which is funny but also increasingly dark as the story progresses.

I'm not too familiar with Beckett aside from some general awareness of his aesthetic and interests.  I just read Krapp's Last Tape, but I understand there is a sort of post-war apocalypticism throughout many of his classic works---such as Waiting for Godot and Endgame.

Reading through more stuff about Beckett, I am also reminded of Artaud, who could also be of interest in this context.

Thank you, will check those out!

I wonder if Japan has more writers with this sort of feel to them since the whole culture was really traumatized by the war and it's still very noticeable. Like Godzilla and Akira and both kind of have this same vibe, even if it's not what I'm looking for now.

I am wondering if Takeshi Kaiko might?  I have one of his novels on my shelf (Darkness in Summer), and it certainly seems like it might have some resonance with this aesthetic/historical period.  I have been meaning to get into his work since Jukka Siikala recommended him to me!

It makes me curious too whether there are any writers associated with Kiyoshi Kurosawa?