Age survey

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Out of nothing but curiosity, decided to put volunteer age survey. all you need to do is click to age group you belong to. Your name or any info won't appear anywhere, unless you happen to post message about it.

It's simply about discussions thats been around for years, about many subcultures growing up, with no new blood etc. And where "youth cultures" actually have turned into subcultures consisting most of all older men. How is this relevant? We'll see, but naturally simplicity of poll doesn't take specific countries into question nor what type of people tend to actively be interested to take part of something like this. Scientific accuracy probably not so high..

[Zeno Marx]

Interesting comment.  I was talking with someone yesterday about something Anthony Bourdain said about the subculture of food service, and the other person posed the idea that there might not be any subcultures anymore because of the internet.  It was a purposely outlandish comment, but what they were getting at is you can almost instantly dig into anything any hobby, profession, fetish, etc.  You don't have to actively experience it for yourself or do any legwork in finding information about it.  The information on a lot of things has always been out there to be found, but in doing so, that search had a greater likelihood to form connexions to these pursuits.  Our conversation was cut short, but I continue to find the idea a pretty interesting one.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Yeah, well, I guess it's up to how define "subculture". If its just group which differentiates them from the larger culture to which they belong - I guess still remains to be considered how they differentiate? Simply based on taste of sound? Like you mentioned, if the method of consumption, the means of involvement and all that remains exactly same as for popular culture - is it really subculture?
Lets say there is someone who listens music clips from youtube. Fact that he listens Rolling Stones or Merzbow, how much does that mean if this is the end of his "cultural involvement"?
Finland is country where music culture is quite different from many other countries. Here subcultures get much bigger value than in some bigger countries. Heavy metal bands are not something what exists as minor success, but is perhaps the biggest music industry. Where punk peaked in such popular way it "tainted" pretty much entire generation. And so on.. But in that sense, it's hardly a sign of "subculture" to wear band shirt, be bald, have tattoos, or be whatever. It's all popularized as part of regular mainstream.

Yesterday I was watching piece of UK street magic guy and he appeared in backroom on popular R&B singer and next thing you see one of the crew members with Mayhem t-shirt. Few weeks ago I caught few minutes of some finnish lame reality TV or whatever show. Why? Because walking across the room with TV screen, in corner of my eye I register Graveland logo. And why would it appear on primetime tv? Well, two girls on that show had Graveland and Master's Hammer shirts. I was told not so long ago one of the C.S.I. tv series band Graveland was mentioned as part of story of involving east european extremism, hah!

But most certainly, even if subcultures bleed into mainstream, to some extent, putting out vinyl records, tapes or perhaps now even CD's, sets you apart from mainstream popular culture. However, if popular culture is basically vast variety of almost equal sized subcultures co-existing - then all of them could be seen as part of popular culture?

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

in corner of my eye I register Graveland logo. And why would it appear on primetime tv? Well, two girls on that show had Graveland and Master's Hammer shirts. I was told not so long ago one of the C.S.I. tv series band Graveland was mentioned as part of story of involving east european extremism, hah!

Wow, these pussys must be from Poland... Anyway, black metal and hip hop are subcultures which remain still active, at least in Poland. Hip hop is more mainstream, but there is dark underground which bans and rejects any connections with pop culture.

[bogskaggmannen]

dark underground which bans and rejects any connections with pop culture.

Does this automatically make them "subcultural"?

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

Does this automatically make them "subcultural"?

It depends on, but why not? Being subcultural isn't for me any value though I remember time when in my parents little town were many punks, metals or skinheads. Nowadays this is rare phenomenon, unfortunately.

[Brad]

Voted 22-25, though approaching the upper limit of it (turning 25½ next month).

Noise differs from punk/black metal/skinhead/etc. subculture in that there is no visual stereotype of a "noise person" you can recognize with any certainty from across the street.  Is this because noise people are less interested in finding each other?

[MT]

it is interesting to think that people like Philip Best started to rip it at the age of 15. and releasing stuff that is now concidered classic material? I have never heard of anyone that young noise artist doing so called high quality stuff. i guess most of the established noise/pe fellows are 30+ nowdays, or +40.

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

Voted 22-25, though approaching the upper limit of it (turning 25½ next month).

Sadly, it seems that I am one of the oldest on this forum...at least in this moment... I hope more elder people will take part in this action...

Noise differs from punk/black metal/skinhead/etc. subculture in that there is no visual stereotype of a "noise person" you can recognize with any certainty from across the street.  Is this because noise people are less interested in finding each other?

Usually "noise person" from Japan looks like hippie with colourful cloths. In Europe, bald-headed guys in black uniforms, or military clothes. Once I saw photos from noise festival in Brazil, there were mainly guys who looked like punks. I guess that reason is youth why noise/industrial isn't subculture.

[Ashmonger]

Clicked 26-29, because of being 26 next month.

[tiny_tove]

almost 39, been involved (and still am) involved in several forms of underground
no contempt to those who wants to fit in groups. I think it is normal and -most of the time healthy- at a certain age to attempt to conform in micro-environments, ad may help to grow a lot once you get out and build your own independent thought.

[acsenger]

there is no visual stereotype of a "noise person" you can recognize with any certainty from across the street.  Is this because noise people are less interested in finding each other?

I think one of the reasons might be because noise doesn't have a core ideology/message that for example metal has (although of course there's no single one within metal). Someone into, say, black metal might want to look scary and grim because that's the atmosphere the genre aims for. In noise (and I'm not including PE in this case) the focus is usually only on the music which is more abstract and doesn't have any lyrics or extreme grimness about it, so there's nothing to express with your appearance. Or at least there's nothing that could be expressed that way.
Also, I think (again to use metal as an example) metal is a very social scene: it's important to go to gigs together for example, and there's probably a satisfying sense of belonging to a well-defined group that clearly differs from non-group members. The looks are part of this. I clearly remember reading an interview on some website with a metal fan about what he likes about metal and he said what he likes most is getting together with friends for gigs and then talking about the concert afterwards while having drinks at a pub. The way he put it made it clear that socializing was at least as important to him as the music, if not more. I guess since there are way less noise fans and noise gigs than metal ones, this kind of attitude would be pretty hard for a noisehead to follow. Also, maybe some are less social (at least I for one don't like going anywhere where there's even a small group of people cause there's bound to be people in one way or another spoiling my having a good time to a smaller or bigger extent -- of course, one has to accept this and can't live like a hermit...).

[RyanWreck]

Turned 28 in May.

And where "youth cultures" actually have turned into subcultures consisting most of all older men. How is this relevant?

It does feel like this specific genre is mad up of larger number of older people and less youth's than most sub-cultures and genres. I don't think I have ever meet a teenager who is into Industrial or Noise (which is a good thing in my opinion) and a small number of > 21 year olds. I think it is going to be humorous to see in 40 years or so a bunch of 60-80 year old men at retirement homes will be listening to Manthausen Orchestra or Bizarre Uproar or some Black Metal bands or whatever you're into. A lot of old withered tattoo's sliding off their wrinkled bodies, etc.

[MT]

And for the record, nearly 28 here too.

[GustavLMM]

I don't think I have ever meet a teenager who is into Industrial or Noise (which is a good thing in my opinion) and a small number of > 21 year olds.

Why is this a good thing? Purely out of interest. I listened to plenty of industrial and noise when i was a teenager (TG/Godflesh/Whitehouse/Ramleh/etc) and still do. I just turned 22.