Harsh Noise Wall [HNW]

Started by Otomo_Hava, May 22, 2013, 08:57:41 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

tisbor

Are we doing this again?
HNW is just the definition for a quite specific sub-genre of harsh noise. I think pretty much all people involved are aware that the same kinds of sound were already common in 90s and 80s noise/p.e., early electronic music and who knows what else.
This doesn't change the fact that Harsh Noise Wall is a simple definition for an even simpler concept.
Also, many of the precursors (Mauthausen Orchestra, Whitehouse's "Movements", Dead Body Love etc etc) are openly cited and admired by HNW acts.
Everybody interprets it in their own way of course, and that's perfectly fine.

Zeno Marx

Quote from: Dr Alex on May 29, 2013, 02:12:16 AMI don't know why people have problem with HNW as description for some noise?
I don't think it is the description.  It's the attention it receives; always at the forefront.  I can relate.  I feel the same way when holidays are everywhere I turn...or sporting events...or really anything that rewards me with nothing and yet is always within eyesight.  It's ridiculous and irrational, but it is.  I've yet to meet anyone who doesn't have a touchstone or two.  Doesn't mean it isn't frustrating for everyone else either, though.
"the overindulgent machines were their children"
I only buy vinyl, d00ds.

candle)ice

The only thing sticking with me these days is that Vast Glory self-titled tape. Unlike the few other HNW releases I have heard, that tape makes me feel rather nervous and on edge throughout its entire duration. I suppose if Mo*Te's Life in a Peaceful World can be considered HNW proper then I can also praise it in this thread.

Bleak Existence

i once said that metal is the best source for noise but white noise is even better

FreakAnimalFinland

Quote from: Dr Alex on May 29, 2013, 02:12:16 AM
@Mikko nobody said that HNW is something new. Wall noise can be heard before "HNW" mark. Nobody wrote that Vomir or The Rita is inventors of noise.

It's new only in way as I described. As said, things most often exist before some sort of manifest of purification happens, which may result sort of small movement or trend. You know, it's not like people did not draw geometric forms before Suprematism - but to reject EVERYTHING ELSE, but few basic geometric forms, was new.  That has similarity to HNW. It refines existing into new level of purity and seeks to operate within such limited range.


What comes to describing bands or some sort of art by its geographic location, it merely shows that vast majority of people are not interested only in 100% measurable matters, but follow culture and tradition and human emotions as well. If you put things like Suomi Rock (Finn rock) and Deutsche Rock next to eachother, I'm sure there is some sort of difference. Polish rock as well. We may analyze it with academic level, yet we may as well acknowledge effect of cultural climate and human element.  And this brings us to situation where "Finnish noise" - as little as it tells about exact musical details - it tells about many other things. I think this humane element simply distracts "HNW" remaining "pure".

I recall when I wrote some harshly critical about "HNW" in old Noisefanatics from and Emil Beaulieau just commented "...and this comes from guy who celebrates "special interests"! " .. hah! And point understood instantly. If just about every field of art and life is dissected further, so we know the movements, eras and currents in painting or photography.. For someone it will be just "image taken with camera" or "some clots of paint on canvas", but the people really interested in matter need more than just conclude "it's all noise, not good or bad, just listen or not". I'm not critical to "HWN" at its best. I'm critical to bandwagon jumpers who are not able to contribute something worthy of listening and personal distaste towards "postmodernity" in genre.
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

Cementimental

Quote from: tisbor on May 29, 2013, 03:20:01 AMAre we doing this again?
Just be thankful jliat doesn't post here :)

Dr Alex

I mostly agree with Mikko, especially with
Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on May 29, 2013, 09:21:44 AM
I'm critical to bandwagon jumpers who are not able to contribute something worthy of listening and personal distaste towards "postmodernity" in genre.

I respect that someone have own thoughts about HNW but this small sub genre of noise no need to be thorn in the eye.

[fuck me! I need better English to explain some things...]

Quote from: Cementimental on May 29, 2013, 11:18:09 AM
Just be thankful jliat doesn't post here :)

ahahahahahahaha YES!

Johann

#37
I am not a fan, first tape/noise related thing I bought was a swampland (and since I hear so many 'Great' things about this label, I'm sure that didn't help either) cassette by the Rita/lapdancer and listened many times but it just never really did it for me. I think it actually kinda stopped me from getting into noise sooner. I've since bought other Rita releases but I've never been moved by them,
also heard rameriez but I think that's just crap.

That being said I really enjoy SE, Golden Serenades, etc but I wouldn't call any of
it HNW (even though the terms been tossed around in discussions involving those acts). I feel HNW is Sam's thing and though it's attracted a fair amount of fanaticism/pseudo-intellectual interest. It's also opened the door for a lot of hanger ons producing shotty work (maybe because people assume its easy, not sure why) or people producing overly conceptual/intellectual while kinda leaving the sound behind altogether. If I see HNW in the description it pretty much means I'm not buying.

Cementimental

For me a lot of what I see described as 'hnw', especially 'good' hnw, turns out to be pretty much just what I always thought 'harsh noise' was supposed to sound like, and a lot of people's 'harsh noise' seems more like just 'noise', or some kind of harsh music with recognisable sounds, loops etc. Anyway, I do like the anti-quality/anonymous/multiplicity of homemade ltd who-cares hnw tapes personally so it doesn't bother me that it's fashionable or overplayed but nor would I consider myself a purist or maniac of the genre.

I actually recorded some kind of non-harsh wall stuf with a fairly high-concept / arbitrary rules for myself some years back before hnw was a thing, never got round to releasing them. Might do once walls are uncool again haha.

By the way if anyone's interested theres a (mostly) HNW all day festival coming up soon in London. I'm playing and will actually be doing a rare (my idea of) HNW set - https://www.facebook.com/events/159569900878873

Bleak Existence


I personally often don't like the close-up line sound. Where you hear small sound source and crackling pedal distortion, but nothing else. Having sense of true amplified space is something what I feel is lacking for vast amounts of HNW projects.
[/quote]

TRUE

ImpulsyStetoskopu

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on May 29, 2013, 09:21:44 AM
I'm critical to bandwagon jumpers who are not able to contribute something worthy of listening and personal distaste towards "postmodernity" in genre.

Mikko, do you want to tell us that you know all "bandwagon jumpers" (with unknown, personally or not, for you names) after listening their releases? Please, let me know how you are able to do it :)?

FreakAnimalFinland

"Bandwagon effect refers to people doing certain things because other people are doing them, regardless of their own beliefs, which they may ignore or override." In case of HNW - or most of music styles - it's very clear that there are trends of microtrends. People start projects because other people are doing them. And these projects come and go, doing few releases here and there, and then gone. I dare to say, that substance what one can hear from THE HATERS (for example), simply is far more than output of guy who had quick passing "idea" of doing HNW before next interesting thing comes.

Many sonic matters would be up to personal tastes and even mediocre harsh blast may be satisfying for noise addicts. It would be matter of what we appreciate in noise. When The Rita or Vomir came, I feel they stood out with their vision. The next guy doing the same is like next guy painting black square and thinking he is so clever. Without using it as fuel for inspiration, just replicate.

I don't think on needs to approach noise merely by "sound". We become aware of many other factors too.
Lets say, the most traditional social cycle theory. Even if sound of some project is not utterly bad, what is its value if it offers 100% copy of other peoples artistic vision?

Can I tell all "bandwagon jumpers" by simply listening? You know, distinct that THIS is The Rita and THAT is someone else trying to sound like him? Of course not and I certainly won't deny factor of positive influence which results that some of the later works is better than previous. But that's part of what I consider bad quality of bandwagon jumpers - from my perspective. I would appreciate if someone does harsh noise wall that sounds like them. If they ask "how's that possible, I'll just end up sounding like everybody" - then you probably know that he's not the guy that stands out from the mass or is able to do more than follow already existing ideas of other people. And he will do it next with other style, other project, when new trend sucks him in.

When internal possibilities of art run out of fuel, it dies of symptoms of old age like any organism.

As I'm noise addict of some sort, I accept quite high level of influence & cumulating ideas, and appreciate projects that can build something from very basic traditional elements. They all don't need to be revolutionary or utterly different.
E-mail: fanimal +a+ cfprod,com
MAGAZINE: http://www.special-interests.net
LABEL / DISTRIBUTION: FREAK ANIMAL http://www.nhfastore.net

Haare

Quote from: Otomo_Hava on May 22, 2013, 08:57:41 PM
Any favourite HNW artists/albums ?
I enjoy a bit of HNW every now & then.
Been listening to The Rita "Retrospective" audio-dvd lately (especially "Living dead girl"), and "Renonce" by Vomir.

nullify

Reading through threads always gets me thinking.  While I personally prefer noise / walls that change texture and dynamics and have a sort of flow, does that discredit them from being HNW?  While I agree that I'm happy the HNW crowd is waning, it seems most would consider what I do distinctly not HNW because of the ebb and flow of things.  (My harsher noise works of course.  I have a few in the works that are distinctly less harsh.)  I've done a few more static pieces but I always feel like there's less attaching me to it.

And of course if the brutal imagery is part of the aesthetic, then I'm definitely not a purveyor of HNW.  I don't think noise needs the gore, I just think it's so ingrained that no one questions it.

I've been listening to Vomir's Living Dead Noise Box lately at night when the babies are asleep and I find his approach, as I've always found it, too static.  It can drown out the day behind it, but rarely swirls around my head and keeps me.  I'm not listening to this shit to soothe my nerves or anything, but still.  Funnily enough though, I dig Ritual Stance's work quite a bit.  And of course Werewolf Jerusalem and The Rita and junk too.  So who knows.  Vomir might just be too punishing.

Bleak Existence

HNW is Harsh Noise ...... with or without any fucking imagery you can think about