DAVID JACKMAN / ORGANUM

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I may have talked this elsewhere, or may have not. Always big fan of Organum, collabs with TNB was how I heard about it. At some point. Well, lets say that "always" is relative. I have the feeling of needing to get more of his works, but once in a while, when I actually decide to buy some of the brutally priced 7"s, is something like:

David Jackman - Laus 7"
3 minutes of classical music. Is it even his? Or just ripped somewhere? Or cut into new composition of something bigger? It's one sider basically. Same stamper used on both sides. So yeah, now when I check out Discogs, this is being asked from 15 to 27 euro. It's not like being victim of rip-off, but when one knows the unique level of the old Organum materials, I wonder where & when things started to fail? What of the material actually IS worth of 30 euro, and which ones you don't need even as freebies?
I liked the new Z'ev collaborations. But then something like Amen CD, what came out about same time felt like useless turd. And those 10"s with like 1 minute sample of classical music going on on on and on for like 7th time until you change side to hear same again. Or the 7"s with just machine gun shooting with as violent burst as grandfathers dick. I do like some concept art. I do feel that there are other means for recordings than simply entertain audience.... but..  Most often I feel that concept artists has no other concept than look how far they can go relying on reputation while producing crap. This seems like most popular mentality of art in modern world, what makes you miss the good old days when people like Jackman made his reputation to be what it is.

[Strömkarlen]

I wonder where & when things started to fail?

Maybe when he, according to rumour, went deaf?

[heretogo]

I grabbed a random Jackman / Organum cd off my shelf (well, I only have a few), Sanctus (Robot). I didn't really remember what this one was about. But it's very nice actually, droning organ, piano, some bells. Moves quite slowly but the movement is clearly there, it's not just a static hymn. Not minimalist, not ambient, I don't know what it should be called. The sound is sort of majestic, not really relaxing, more like uplifting. The disc consists of four variations on the theme, all quite similar, but not really the same.  Hmm.. I think I really like this one.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

It is possibly about the same as Amen CD.
Not really bad, but Amen I and II, variations of same, and you heard whole thing in about 3 minutes. I do admit it is probably meant for kind of mediation purposes. Or if not meant, at least suitable. I just can't feel the same thing in semi new age uplifting muzak sounding stuffl, with computer assembled loops. Compared to for example... "Vacant Lights". I feel there is difference in few things with few alternative mixes thrown on disc vs. proper album.

[heretogo]

Yeah, the difference might be us coming from different perspectives. Instead of thinking about the short term sounds I tend to "feel" this over the longer duration (> 10 min). Like somehow it doesn't make even sense as one "variation". Or maybe I'm just full of it... whatever the case I'm glad this was a fairly cheap cd, not a 30 euro LP... Maybe I should be careful about liking these, I just can't afford to become a Jackman collector, heh.

[heretogo]

Let's pick another one. A reissue of a tape from 1996, cd on Die Stadt. This one is called Verhalte Dich Ruhig and features what I think might be a photo from Auschwitch on its cover. Sound is not nazi boot stomping, however. It's layers of orchestral string music put together and overlaid in a slightly strange manner. At first it sounds just like a standard piece of somewhat cheesy, melodramatic orchestral string music. Nothing offensive, stuff that I can easily have playing in the background and not be annoyed. But then at some point a weird feeling takes over, something is not quite right. Somehow the superposition of the layers in done in such a way that the music acquires an eerie quality. I guess it's the way the loops are spliced together, the strings just keep on playing seamlessly. With this simple trick the music becomes something more than its basic ingredients, like it becomes dislocated from its origin. Ghost music from the past that never was?

Still, it's a bit of a novelty disc in the end, not a masterpiece by any means. Evening music after a busy day, probably best enjoyed with a glass of nice wine, heh.

[Zeno Marx]

I just heard this recently, and it made quite an impression on me.

David Jackman - Up from Zero 1982-1980 - "Up from Zero" may have become one of my favorite Jackman tracks - if anyone needs a soundtrack for a shaft mine collapsing, there they go - at 16 minutes in length, much longer than the average Jackman affair.

[Bloated Slutbag]

Somehow the superposition of the layers in done in such a way that the music acquires an eerie quality. I guess it's the way the loops are spliced together, the strings just keep on playing seamlessly. With this simple trick the music becomes something more than its basic ingredients, like it becomes dislocated from its origin.

For a few days I almost persuaded myself this was true - because I really really wanted it to be. Then reality set in.

[heretogo]

For a few days I almost persuaded myself this was true - because I really really wanted it to be. Then reality set in.

Can you explain this a bit more?

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I would assume it is the case, where you listen material and want to assume it has something special. You want to feel it is MORE than you actually hear, but in the end it seems less than you hear.

I have had same feeling on bands like Gerogerigegege. When you listen some of his "art" 7"s and even CD's, you listen to material and think, ok, I was simply fucked over. Then you think, there must be some bigger ideas here, and some value in sound you hear. But, is there? Like people don't want to be spanked and humiliated by everybody, but by some specific persons it's ok. I've come into conclusion that it's ok to be humiliated by Yuntaro, but not ok by Jackman. That's just personal preferance.

[LIFE]

I think the big question with me, as someone who has never owned his original LPs, is: did he draw his original LP artwork, or is it simply collage from medical books or some kind of obscure British book collection?

Organum is flawless. Nothing to add that couldn't be better stated within the music itelf. I've never investigated "Jackman" solo works. Regardless of that, he's a king. I want to hear his "Scratch Orchestra" works, but who knows what I'll think. I'm content listening to him perform varying screeches and pseudo-ethnic ambient under the name Organum, but maybe someday I'll go a bit farther.

[LIFE]

That brings up a point about collage in general. I see the laziest collages on noise tapes/releases. I don't know if I see more of it as an American, but if you see a random tape, even from a popular label, there's like an 80% chance it's going to look like they tore a few images out of the same magazines everyone else reads. Even collages of abstract patterns look the same.

Then you see something like that Organum LP you linked, and it's beyond anything. I wouldn't want someone to straight rip off Jackman(/Max Ernst) or start doing that kind of labor-intensive work just because it's "impressive", but it's a good sign when you see something and can't tell if it's an original drawing, a collage, both, or neither. I always knew he credited the art as "collage", but I thought maybe it was some weird British way of talking.

Sometimes "nonsense" art is good, like someone throwing random images on a piece of paper and letting the connections form naturally (if at all), but the dada type of justifications get old. I look at Jackman or Ernst and it's bizarre and unruly artwork, but it has structure and purpose. And you can hear that in Organum's music. That also sums up what I look for in experimental/noise music as a whole.... insane ideas with a classical appeal.

[Zeno Marx]

That Vacant Lights art reeks of Heemann...or Heemann reeks of it.  (probably the latter)

[heretogo]

To address some of the issues Mikko brought up, about artists relying on reputation and listeners giving them the benefit of the doubt. I do think it's a problem sometimes and we do allow ourselves to be "humiliated" from time to time, accepting crap sounds from big name artists. But for me personally it's also a question of the the bigger picture. Once I'm familiar enough with an artist the individual releases can work as pieces of the puzzle, not only as single statements that have to stand on their own. This is especially true if the artist has truly forged his/her own identity, something that nobody else does. There can be mystique involved, maybe some releases can be thought of as big jokes etc. And yes, in some cases the individual release can transcend from being "just" the sound recorded on the disc to something bigger/higher. Of course it's a line drawn in water, there can be very little difference between a turd and a diamond. And I guess if you start to go down that road you have to accept some humiliation at some point... heh.

In the case of Jackman, who else is producing stuff like him? Any new guys around that would churn out similar stuff and not get the recognition that Jackman does?

[FreakAnimalFinland]

for me personally it's also a question of the the bigger picture. Once I'm familiar enough with an artist the individual releases can work as pieces of the puzzle, not only as single statements that have to stand on their own. This is especially true if the artist has truly forged his/her own identity, something that nobody else does.

This is actually very true. I do think, that sometimes bands may suffer from need to present "their style" or something in each release. I remember reading someone's interview back in 90's when he said that compilation tracks are the hardest ones to make, since you have to put all sides of your project into track to represent your work properly.....   hmm. I was little confused back then, but I do realize that I have also done equal unconscious decisions. Thinking this track can be album track, where other material puts it into right context, but that it couldn't be 7" or compilation, since it would give "wrong" impression of band. This might be leading to case where albums seem "calculated". It's not just honest expression, but something processed with listeners reaction in mind. Some bands you never know what to expect. Their albums, singles, compilation tracks etc. all may sound different, but bigger picture reveals the nature of project. In that way albums may start to stand out better. It's not about repeating everything all the time, but some albums for some approach and other albums for other. Without lost identity.

From Organum, I think very recommended purchase for those who have not yet get to know with it, would be ORGANUM/TNB "pulp" CD. It has pulp 7", it has "wreck" 12", and more. While original vinyls would cost you perhaps 300,- or so to purchase from 2nd hand merchants, this CD is listed by multiple sellers at discogs for... 10-15 euro or something like that. And might be still available as new too? Bought my copy from Disc Union back in 2005 or something?