Your ranking of the best pe/industrial/ambient albums, EP's and 7''

Started by cutter, May 10, 2016, 01:15:58 AM

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Scat-O-Logy

Quote from: Leewar on June 01, 2016, 10:46:55 AM
Quote from: Fluid Fetish on June 01, 2016, 01:46:11 AM
Quote from: Leewar on May 22, 2016, 11:03:02 AM
Ive never understood the praise for Nicole 12, to me its all very predictable.

The whole discography, or which releases are you referring too? Just out of curiousity. I think the 7''s and Black Line definitely have their own unique style personally, but even the old stuff I can't think of anything to compare too? I'm not the most well versed in PE/Noise as some here admittedly so maybe I'm wrong.

I have just never been impressed with the whole project, cant remember what ive heard, think it was a couple of the 7"'s but it just struck me as the usual 'bloke pretending to be a bit of a pedo, after purchasing his first Sotos book' type material, some good sounds but just seems more for superficial 'shock' value then anything more.

Sounds like the concept of project went over your head, straight to your feelings.


Leewar

Nope, still comes across as a bad attempt at copying Whitehouse's "Mummy and daddy" album.

And no im not upset by it or hurt, i just think its about as safe as you can get in this scene.

Duncan

Well, it's an equally unhelpful idea that the only sacred cows in PE come from 30 odd years ago.

I've only ever heard good things - sometimes bordering on evangelical - about Nicole12 but after plenty of listening over many years I struggle to get past some very basic stumbling blocks.  I think the music is great: excellently composed and often minimal synth textures with great pacing.  But much of the lyrical quantity of the work (which surely nobody could deny is integral to the project?) is riddled with quite bad writing and even some pretty broken English at times!  Maybe that can't be helped and is unfair to pick on, but it prevents the project from fully building the world that I think it is trying to.  From listening, the overarching feeling I still have is of a person who has decided to do an industrial project about paedophilia rather than the bare bones expose it is often heralded as.  I dont feel it particularly makes any interest statements about it's subjects beyond identifying in detail that things like that exist, and it feels like just making these references and saying these things explicitly is enough for people to buy into it as a super provocative project.  N12 is made for and consumed almost exclusively by an audience well aware of what to expect from the genre and many of these people will have clear knowledge that this person talking is Mikko Aspa rather than a pervy dad cumming on his daughters shoes.  Whether or not it is the case for anyone else, these things really prevent me from finding the project that affecting, and so in these contexts I'd agree with Leewar that it is pretty safe.  Enjoyable, sure.

All just my very humble opinion of course...but I think there are more passes given to projects in the worlds of Noise and PE owing to who is behind them and what they are about than many folk would like to admit, and that buck doesn't begin and end with middle aged men who were in Whitehouse.

aububs

Quote from: Duncan on June 04, 2016, 12:10:02 PM
Well, it's an equally unhelpful idea that the only sacred cows in PE come from 30 odd years ago.

I've only ever heard good things - sometimes bordering on evangelical - about Nicole12 but after plenty of listening over many years I struggle to get past some very basic stumbling blocks.  I think the music is great: excellently composed and often minimal synth textures with great pacing.  But much of the lyrical quantity of the work (which surely nobody could deny is integral to the project?) is riddled with quite bad writing and even some pretty broken English at times!  Maybe that can't be helped and is unfair to pick on, but it prevents the project from fully building the world that I think it is trying to.  From listening, the overarching feeling I still have is of a person who has decided to do an industrial project about paedophilia rather than the bare bones expose it is often heralded as.  I dont feel it particularly makes any interest statements about it's subjects beyond identifying in detail that things like that exist, and it feels like just making these references and saying these things explicitly is enough for people to buy into it as a super provocative project.  N12 is made for and consumed almost exclusively by an audience well aware of what to expect from the genre and many of these people will have clear knowledge that this person talking is Mikko Aspa rather than a pervy dad cumming on his daughters shoes.  Whether or not it is the case for anyone else, these things really prevent me from finding the project that affecting, and so in these contexts I'd agree with Leewar that it is pretty safe.  Enjoyable, sure.

All just my very humble opinion of course...but I think there are more passes given to projects in the worlds of Noise and PE owing to who is behind them and what they are about than many folk would like to admit, and that buck doesn't begin and end with middle aged men who were in Whitehouse.

Nailed it.

Theodore

Quote from: Leewar on June 04, 2016, 10:43:04 AM
And no im not upset by it or hurt, i just think its about as safe as you can get in this scene.

So what's "unsafe" in this scene nowdays ? Peace-love-unity ? Make love not war stuff ? I guess yes, that would be considered "unsafe" given that i agree the most "safe" path for a project nowdays is "put a swastika on the cover". That said, i don't really care about "safe" and "unsafe". All i care is if something works for me and if its concept is in the wider of spectrum of my interests or at least to not be as stupid as "Imagine all the people ..." songs, and i don't necessarily ask those both things happen on the same time.

I don't seek to be shocked, neither to be surprised, so safe / unsafe is pretty much meaningless to me. One [Me!] could also translate that "safe" as "keeping / following the traditions of the genre", thing i appreciate.
"ἀθάνατοι θνητοί, θνητοὶ ἀθάνατοι, ζῶντες τὸν ἐκείνων θάνατον, τὸν δὲ ἐκείνων βίον τεθνεῶτες"

Leewar

Id say its 'safe' more as its a safe bet for a audience, same as you say - sticking a swastika on the cover.

Was this done deliberately? I doubt it, but at the same time for me personally it was nothing new, as i said i enjoyed the sounds, but just dont understand the praise.

Would the Salty Milk audio be a better study on its own? Probably but maybe thats a whole new topic of "upping the shock ante". Im sure somebody will go straight to the source one day.


Yrjö-Koskinen

I disagree with the talk of Nicole 12 being safe. It does not fail to convey its content in a disturbing manner. I liked the sound, but I hated the concept and general atmosphere so much that I stopped listening to it pretty much right away and haven't listened to it for years. Honestly I think perhaps it shouldn't have been made at all. But to say that it is ineffective, cliched or "safe" is not true. I would certainly not praise it - i don't even like it, despite being a huge fan of a large chunk of Mikkos output - but as a pure "piece of art" aimed at provoking, exploring the subject and being disturbing, I don't think Nicole 12 was ineffective at all. And grammatical errors don't matter in this particular case.
"Alkoholi ei ratkaise ongelmia, mutta eipä kyllä vittu maitokaan"

Ahvenanmaalla Puhutaan Suomea