Tape vs CDr

Started by Analogan Smrt, October 28, 2016, 11:58:21 AM

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Fluid Fetish

Quote from: Zeno Marx on October 29, 2016, 02:41:52 AM
Quote from: Fluid Fetish on October 29, 2016, 01:18:24 AMTypically they were only CD-R's that I played repeatedly though.
in scientific terms, they call that:  coincidence

Odd that coincidentally then none of my regular CD's have suddenly stopped working like some of the CD-R's....but even those were the exception, most of CD-R's I have held out.  Ultimately I do not care about formats and will listen to music any way I can...

Leatherface

Cdr suck! Certainly the worst format ever.

magnus

Is there a correalation between the length of a track and the propensity to skip on a cdr?
It might be due to my old stereo, but I get the feeling that the cdrs I´ve had with problems have more often than not been ones with one long track on them.
Tapes are of course nice!

Baglady

When I've burned masterfiles onto cdrs I've always had to make it one long track instead of several separate tracks, so it's been the opposite for me.
Nothing against buying a cdr for 3€ though, just that no artists I follow release cdrs anymore.

Andrew McIntosh

Cdr's that have fucked up? I've had vinyl albums that have scratched and warped  and cassettes that have snagged and snapped. Spooky, eh readers?
Shikata ga nai.

Bleak Existence


Zeno Marx

There's a lot of shit that can go wrong with CD/CDrs and the process of burning and handling them.  No argument.  They're a flawed medium.  Onward...

Before it was common to file share and torrent, I did quite a bit of trading for both data CDrs and audio CDrs.  I'll take a stab and guess I have maybe 250.  Those are all 10-15 years old now and have seen lots of use.  I probably have another 100 audio CDrs that I burned for road trips, travel, and whatnot.  Never had a single problem with any of them.  They've played in every car and stereo.  Never lost any data, either.  Writing on them.  Stickers on them.  Mailed in folded up newspaper.  As far as I know, they all still work.

The only time I've had consistent problems with CDrs is of the audio CDr variety.  I've had consistent problems making backup copies with EAC and even Foobar's ripper, which is nowhere near as sensitive to read and sync errors.  I could bitch for an hour about how so many CDr demos and limited editions were written at 1200Xs speed with some shitty software, making them impossible to back up with a perfect, exact copy.  I trust the medium just fine.  I don't trust the people burning, ripping, and using them...or really, how most people haphazardly approach digital media and files in general.
"the overindulgent machines were their children"
I only buy vinyl, d00ds.

holy ghost

A lot of my CDs pre-1993 have issues. All my Slayer, Morbid Angel, Metallica and Terrorizer CDs have stopped playing in players. I've heard the term "disc rot" bandied about a lot, and that newer CDs have a "coating" that prevents this. I wouldn't put it to far to guess this same thing happens to CDRs even now? Just a guess, I'm no scientist....

Zeno Marx

Quote from: holy ghost on October 29, 2016, 10:32:36 PM
A lot of my CDs pre-1993 have issues. All my Slayer, Morbid Angel, Metallica and Terrorizer CDs have stopped playing in players. I've heard the term "disc rot" bandied about a lot, and that newer CDs have a "coating" that prevents this. I wouldn't put it to far to guess this same thing happens to CDRs even now? Just a guess, I'm no scientist....
Disc rot is real.  I've found it on a couple of my oldest CDs (makes torrenting that much more necessary; active archives of original recordings before artists and labels went at their recordings with new technologies and lack of knowledge...or the asinine, dreaded urge to revise their work).  It could be a lot of things why this is happening.  Sony and Philips didn't likely do a whole lotta research into chemical and environmental reactions, nor into plain ol' oxidation.  How does the disc react to all the printing chemicals and agents from the booklets?  How does the disc react to various climates and exposure to various pollutants (like pizza fingers or household dust)?  Then you have manufacturing inconsistencies and fuckups.  I'm not too sure about coatings on your average discs, but it is possible.  Everyone has certainly become aware of disc rot, though.  With how prevalent planned obsolescence is everywhere in our business culture, I'd be surprised if they didn't see the potentially short life span of a CD to be a virtue of the format, thus doing not a lot to change it.  There are CDR outfits that have specifically tried to fix this problem.  Museums, like The Smithsonian, still use hard copies for archiving, so there was a demand for disc blanks that could last for several decades.  I believe Taiyo Yuden has some that they guarantee for 100 years that were tested with light, heat, exposure to this and that, etc.  They don't cost $.10 each, though.
"the overindulgent machines were their children"
I only buy vinyl, d00ds.

NO PART OF IT

As I understand it, the "warmth" of a cassette (and vinyl) is real.  It is printed on somewhat organic matter.  The wave forms are rounded, but the dynamic range is obviously much smaller than that of a CD.  A CD or CDR, however, "squares off" the waves, making them "blocky", even if it is at a much higher quality.  The subconscious notices, apparently.  I personally release things with that sound quality in mind: "warmth" vs. clarity, depending on the content. 

I only recently experienced disc rot by ordering a copy of The Portable Altamont (for $1) because I wanted the art, knowing that the disc was rotted.  Other than that, I haven't experienced it.  That said, I bought solely cassettes until around 2001, so maybe that's not long enough.  And also, I have certainly experienced CDRs that were burned too fast or with crappy software/quality.  It's pretty rare and it's usually poorly packaged, given to me, sent as a demo, etc, which doesn't rank high in my listening queue anyway. 

I would be curious the difference between a replicated CD and a duplicated CD, VS. a CDR of varying types, plus that of a "studio quality" CDr, and how DVDs/DVDRs match up, for that matter.   

Ultimately, it is not jewelry.  I buy the work of an artist I like regardless of the format.  If I don't care for the cover art, I might prefer a smaller format than vinyl, but other than that, I think these biases are largely herd-like and moronic. 
A caterpillar that goes around trying to rip the wings off of butterflies is not a more dominant caterpillar, just a caterpillar that is looking for a bigger caterpillar to crush him.  Some caterpillars are mad that they will never grow to be butterflies.
 
https://www.nopartofit.bandcamp.com

JuhoN

I would buy more CD-R.

I have 2 currently.

1 is normal cd-r (3+ years old).
1 is pro-cd-r (7 years old).

They both sound just fine.

Also had 3rd cd-r that I gave away because I didn't like that music. It didn't have any problems sound-wise. It was few years old as well.







monotome

Some tapes from the '80, even when gain is turned up I can't make up any of the music due to magnetic degradation.

Some cd-r from 2 years ago don't play because someone doesn't knew burning at 48x isn't a good thing, so there where to much errors at the burning process.

I don't see why degradation of a medium is a bad thing. Yes it might sucks because it costed money, but music doesn't need to be available for always, forever. It shouldn't.
   


holy ghost

Quote from: monotome on November 15, 2016, 10:09:54 PM
I don't see why degradation of a medium is a bad thing. Yes it might sucks because it costed money, but music doesn't need to be available for always, forever. It shouldn't.

What an odd thing to say. Why would you not have the expectation that something should last if you've purchased it...

Theodore

Quote from: monotome on November 15, 2016, 10:09:54 PM
I don't see why degradation of a medium is a bad thing. Yes it might sucks because it costed money, but music doesn't need to be available for always, forever. It shouldn't.

Next time you ll buy a reissue, you ll listen a classic album, your 80s tapes, an album you loved and still do, think about what you said above. It's not fast food, neither snapchat. Degradation of a medium after years is not bad thing indeed. We degrade too. But that's totally different than the "music doesn't need to be available for always" rule / belief. For sure not every shit deserves to live forever, also it's fine to be rare releases, old or new, to hunt, to wish to have. But why music shouldn't last forever ? Good music. Then for how long is OK ? Most of the music will "die" sooner or later, shall we kill it before its natural death ? Why, when ?
"ἀθάνατοι θνητοί, θνητοὶ ἀθάνατοι, ζῶντες τὸν ἐκείνων θάνατον, τὸν δὲ ἐκείνων βίον τεθνεῶτες"

monotome

Maybe why should it be available forever ? was a more correct way to phrase it, but it doesn't make a huge difference for what I meant. The fact that we can't have everything makes me want to create. If everything is already here and stays always here, there is no need to create or hunt for something new.

I will leave it at that.