Sharing MP3s of old out-of-print noise?

Started by PedestrianOrgans, April 25, 2018, 05:22:55 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Euro Trash Bazooka

I don't like MP3s but I trade a lot of tapes and tape dubs. I don't mind tape dubs with good xerox of a cover for some limited tape that came out 25 years ago and vanished into complete underground obscurity. But the amount of people who can't be arsed dubbing tapes, or want to send you the latest thing available in every distro for some obscure awesome stuff is depressing. People don't want to hunt, don't want to share, and they're all about fighting to get the biggest deal possible and make the less effort possible. Fuck that mentality.
DROIT DIVIN: https://droitdivin1.bandcamp.com/

CRYPTOFASCISME / VIOLENT SHOGUN /
ETC: https://yesdivulgation.bandcamp.com/

PedestrianOrgans

See now I think you mistake me a little bit. I love hunting for records more than probably anything else. I'd never give that up that "thrill of the hunt" but... things that were released in 30 copies over 30 years ago, never reissued and are wildly collectible now, it's just statistics that you're probably not getting one. And who knows how many are even still out there or not destroyed in like 2003 by a dog or something?

Euro Trash Bazooka

No, no, I'm just basically complaining about people who don't have dual tape decks yet shell out hundreds of €£¥$ each month on tapes/records, behave like hoarders and are all about posting in record score threads online but never contribute anything anywhere. Sorry for being French, complaining and going on strike is serious business here, hehe...
DROIT DIVIN: https://droitdivin1.bandcamp.com/

CRYPTOFASCISME / VIOLENT SHOGUN /
ETC: https://yesdivulgation.bandcamp.com/

Theodore

Quote from: holy ghost on April 28, 2018, 04:48:14 AM
Here's another weird tidbit for y'all: why is discogs banning the sale of bootlegs? It's not like a second hand sale of a legit press is any different than a second hand sale of a bootleg.

That's a good question, i hadn't thought before. I think they do it cause if they allow it there will be a mess. People will start doing their own bootlegs -tapes, CDR- , adding them and try to sell them. Multiple times more bootlegs than those added now. The database will become full of shit.

- - -

On another note : i am annoyed by the mentality "I have money, i want them all, i want them now" .
"ἀθάνατοι θνητοί, θνητοὶ ἀθάνατοι, ζῶντες τὸν ἐκείνων θάνατον, τὸν δὲ ἐκείνων βίον τεθνεῶτες"

PedestrianOrgans

True again, but where's the difference between patience and persistence when it's not something you're really "waiting for" as something rare and coveted you have to collect?

Zeno Marx

#20
Discogs is just covering their legal ass when it comes to bootlegs.  With how litigious our culture is, it's not worth the chance.  There's some moral limbo in there as well, but [I feel] most of their action is about potential legal issues.

On one of the major torrent sites, there's a small group who take pleasure, and possibly pride, in ripping tapes and records.  I suspect they're going through their own collections for archival purposes and sharing along the way for that odd new currency:  ratio.  Get on it to see what they're doing.  You'd be surprised what they're ultimately protecting for the future.  In the greater scheme, there's a smallish group of people whose hobby is making super high quality vinyl rips and spending several thousands of dollars on their ripping rigs (no exaggeration), always upgrading and changing those rigs in pursuit of the ultimate rip.  It's kind of amazing, really.  You aren't going to readily find much in the way of what would be discussed on this message board, but the point is that the hobby does exist.  And if you were desperate and trusting enough, they almost all have open invitations to send them your records so they can rip them at said high quality, after which they would return your records.  They're just really into ripping and sharing vinyl.  They clearly enjoy that particular tedium.

There are a lot of demographics and perspectives in all of this.  Hoarding is only one of them.  Laziness is another.
"the overindulgent machines were their children"
I only buy vinyl, d00ds.

Soloman Tump

Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on April 28, 2018, 04:58:12 AM
It is inexcusable that out of print releases be uploaded as mp3s. They should be ripped to wave files.

not always necessary, if the best source file available is a tape copy of a master tape.

Theodore

Quote from: PedestrianOrgans on April 28, 2018, 07:12:50 PM
True again, but where's the difference between patience and persistence when it's not something you're really "waiting for" as something rare and coveted you have to collect?

Persistence is good and i support it. Let's talk about persistence. These old rare tapes in your wantlist, there are guys wanting them for years, decade, and still searching. You seem somewhat surprised and disappointed cause one month of trying in a forum and a note of "money is not a issue" didn't help you. To me this looks like more of desperation cause "i can't have now" than persistence. Maybe i am wrong but that's the impression i have. Also, be sure that money is not an issue for some of these guys too. So if we could say than anyone "deserves" the tape, who would that be ? Also note, what works the other way round too, that maybe money is not an issue for people who have these tapes as well. They prefer to keep them, and if they decide to give away, unless in big need for money, they maybe prefer a friend to sale to or trade with.

I don't say this for you to stop or change anything. We just talking. And if i am annoyed by something that's my problem actually, that shouldn't anyone cares. I am saying you these cause you better accept the fact that some things we will never have. That's it. And if you ask me, it's for good, better this way. If you find 1-3 of these tapes in a period of time you should not be just happy but excited. Still i feel you will be disappointed cause you didn't find everything, now !
"ἀθάνατοι θνητοί, θνητοὶ ἀθάνατοι, ζῶντες τὸν ἐκείνων θάνατον, τὸν δὲ ἐκείνων βίον τεθνεῶτες"

Euro Trash Bazooka

Persistance pays though. Last month I got my two major tape wants after years of searching. They don't even appear on Discogs. One I only saw a picture of once, the other one I just heard of through discussion. I never saw them on any lists, the bands didn't have them or wouldn't reply back. But now I have them. Life doesn't feel better though.
DROIT DIVIN: https://droitdivin1.bandcamp.com/

CRYPTOFASCISME / VIOLENT SHOGUN /
ETC: https://yesdivulgation.bandcamp.com/

Duncan

Thinking you have to hold out for years to ever even stand a chance of hearing a ltd to 20 tape for the sake of some record collector, physical format snobbery endurance props is the most bullshit false economy nonsense you could possibly vomit into a discussion like this.  I'm sorry that the lay of the land was different in the past and that people give a shit about these things 30 years on but that's the way it is. You're mostly talking about people here that would jump at the chance to own the fucking thing if it was in any way possible. 

Could it at all be possible that a wider availability of tape rips/vinyl rips might *GASP* lead to a shortage of people who are prepared to continue propping up the autistic Discogs culture of sweating and worrying about when some arsehole in Belgium is finally prepared to let go of his copy of rare item?

Sorry mates, I'm typing this in a room absolutely packed with tapes, records, cds and cdrs but I'll be fucked if I'm going to to buy into the stupid idea that the only honourable way to hear a release is purchasing it for too much money off some opportunist wanker.  How many of those original copies do you think were probably traded in the first place anyway? Jesus.

YES PLEASE to tape rips/blogs/torrents of impossible to get stuff.  The real issue here is who can be fucked to do it I suppose.
EVEN MORE YES PLEASE to sensible, widely available, affordable CD reissue collections of this kind of thing so I can actually pay someone to hear it without taking part in the charade of scrambling over rare originals.

The hunt for records will never end so why not make it easier when you can and enjoy a digital copy until you find one?

Theodore

It is the way it is, either one agrees or not, it doesn't change. I have no problem waiting for years to get hold of the X impossible-to-find tape cause i know and have accepted the fact that more likely i wouldn't hold it at all, never, like many others. So if it comes, when it comes, is a very welcome gift. That i don't expect it to be cheap ofcource. Is someone who has a rare item an idiot ? He doesn't know what he has and how much money it worths in the market ? I don't think so ... Has anyone sold a rare item he had deadly cheap -intentionally- on a marketplace like Discogs ? Who ? If so, he has every right to ask others to do the same or accusing them if they don't.

Same for rips. I will be the first to download such a rip and say a thanks. But is it a big deal ? No. The same you will say about the item itself. OK, i am with you. The physical finding has more thrill, more excitement, more joy, more of an achievement, but after all ... Bazooka put it perfectly hehe. "Life doesn't feel better" .

Ask yourself, is that 20 minutes of music on the rare tape we want ? When we have hours and hours of other material from the same artist easily available ? With very few exceptions the answer is No. We -OK, i ll speak for myself- , I want something to want to. Meanwhile, i can live without it and i do.

People asking for rips. But have you people ripped your entire collection -or the rare ones- and shared it ?
"ἀθάνατοι θνητοί, θνητοὶ ἀθάνατοι, ζῶντες τὸν ἐκείνων θάνατον, τὸν δὲ ἐκείνων βίον τεθνεῶτες"

Andrew McIntosh

Quote from: Soloman Tump on April 28, 2018, 08:06:39 PM
Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on April 28, 2018, 04:58:12 AM
It is inexcusable that out of print releases be uploaded as mp3s. They should be ripped to wave files.

not always necessary, if the best source file available is a tape copy of a master tape.

I don't see how that makes a difference and I don't agree. Simply because it's just as easy to rip and upload a wave file as an mp3 file. The only difference is how long it takes and that's nominal. If you can get the better sound quality easily enough it makes no sense not to.
Shikata ga nai.

PedestrianOrgans

I've created a monster
cuz nobody wants these cassettes anymore they want .wav files and nice rippers

Soloman Tump

Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on April 29, 2018, 03:32:16 AM
If you can get the better sound quality easily enough it makes no sense not to.

so why in 2018 do people still insist on releasing stuff as a limited edition cassette.....

PedestrianOrgans

See now I'm never sure anymore if people are INTENTIONALLY creating this "rarity void" that makes their stuff seem more collectible or if it really does lie with lack of funding or materials. Maybe some of both.