Special Interest

Was just looking through the Pogrom page on Discogs and noticed that there were no copies of Multicultural Degeneration for sale which I thought was odd as the CD was in a large edition. So I clicked on the 'sell CD' button and it took me to a page saying - Sorry, this release cannot be sold in the Discogs Marketplace. If you have questions please email us at marketplace at discogs dot com

I checked a couple of other Pogrom releases and the same message appears. I'm sure there are rules on the site about extreme material but I have never seen this before. No issues with Goatmoon or XE. Also in the world of Discogs an artist like Pogrom is quite small so it seems odd that his stuff can't be sold anymore, I guess someone must have complained to them about it. Just curious if anyone else has encountered this?

edit- right, just looked a bit more and it seems the entire discography of F&V has been removed from discogs marketplace. You can still buy goatmoon stuff but no F&V.

A copy of Liberal Cunt was on sale until the other day, i am sure. I tryed and the same message appeared..

I can see 18 copies of releases for sale on discogs by this band whose music I have never actually heard.

Oh man, it seems that discogs has completely disabled selling anything on the label Filth&Violence.
This sucks.

Quote from: HongKongGoolagong on August 22, 2013, 02:03:18 AM
I can see 18 copies of releases for sale on discogs by this band whose music I have never actually heard.

It seems only Pogrom releases on F&V have been banned. Which makes it seem like someone complained about the label.

There are some Mistakes on Discogs, which are absolute Useless. Don't think it have something to do with the Releases. I can't sell a Nunslaughter CD, cause it is a "unique" release. Strangely early 10 others can sell it without Problems and the release is Limited to Individual 1000

Not sure if it was this:
http://www.discogs.com/NunSlaughter-Goat/release/1770600
or this one:
http://www.discogs.com/NunSlaughter-Goat/release/804124

But its strange, you can't sell anything whats not already in the Marketplace from F&V. But you can sell RAC/Skin Rock or NSBM and all

Quote from: Purple Blossoms on August 22, 2013, 02:03:54 AM
Oh man, it seems that discogs has completely disabled selling anything on the label Filth&Violence.
This sucks.

Did you get any notice from Discogs about this? Any reason why? (well, it's obvious I suppose why, just curious as to why they have acted) Or did the  items just get deleted from your sale page?

Quote from: fireblanket on August 22, 2013, 02:06:42 AM

Quote from: Purple Blossoms on August 22, 2013, 02:03:54 AM
Oh man, it seems that discogs has completely disabled selling anything on the label Filth&Violence.
This sucks.

Did you get any notice from Discogs about this? Any reason why? (well, it's obvious I suppose why, just curious as to why they have acted) Or did the  items just get deleted from your sale page?

Just a couple hours ago, I went back on the internet and saw that everything from my stock that is F&V was deleted from my inventory.
I didn't receive any message of any kind. I don't know why they acted now :/
Let's just hope this is a glitch.

Perhaps this is the beginning of selective removals.

I don't know. F&V seems to get hit by complaining people every so often. I can think of at least two other times, not related to discogs, when complaining fucks have caused trouble with the label.

Considering Discogs started out as an experimental database, indicating they should be accustomed to the silly shit involved with it, it's somewhat humorous to think they'll have to draw a line at what is appropriate and what is not.

The overzealous upcharging on F&V and related items has just increased tenfold. Time to pawn yer collections boys!

one could assume that this is just beginning of labeling individual releases or entire catalogues as banned items.
No wonder, as many releases listen on discogs are probably illegal in some countries. There has been few complaints of "nazi records" in discogs forum once in a while.

This is ridiculous! Started a new topic in Discogs, HERE (http://www.discogs.com/groups/topic/374849).

I don't know if it is ridiculous or not.  They're a business and a resource, not an example or moral compass.  They're not only competing with the likes of eBay head-on, but they also face the same legal conflicts and potentials as eBay.  They want to be a flow-through third party, collect their fees, develop their apps and further their integration (a great tagging tool for Foobar, for example), build value, and all the while not end up on the hook for adolescent shit serious enough to get them flagged by governments and securities (PayPal).  It might be censorship, but it is also smart.

I didn't find any band banned, but labels such as Toothless Yid Records (big surprise!?) appear to be banned. Yet to find any particular band, even if there is probably much more offensive (and even illegal) bands than any labels.

It's hard to say what kind of money flows through Discogs, but I'm sure they can make this type of actions what hardly effects negatively to their income. It is curious situation in industrial, though. Labels who have made all kinds of releases, could they be banned due one or handful of releases? Or does it need to be the "red line" within label? It makes more sense in case when labels sole purpose is to release & distribute questionable material.

F&V sells via their website, so this doesn't affect label itself. People who want to get the (new) releases, should just rely on old style of ordering things. Contact label or their distributors, pay with bank or cash.

However, it is kind of surprising that such amounts of "hatemusic" is generally accepted on discogs. I'm sure it is merely matter of time when it goes down. Similar to ebay being the biggest source of questionable WWII collectibles until they banned it all. "Hatemusic" appears in US ebay all the time, but german ebay is very strict. I think it's not such a big problem that noise releases are sold within noise mailorders and on classified sections of noise forums. Discogs is useful tool, but hardly absolute necessity.

He should wear it like a badge of honor, that F&V got banned earlier than the likes of Resistance Records and Rock-O-Rama Records.

Yeah, I noticed this when I was thinking of selling the few 7"s I have on Reb Rebel... verboten!

http://www.discogs.com/label/Reb%20Rebel

This action is irrational and senseless.

Discogs' supposed to be a database for ALL kinds of music according ALL subjects of inspiration (ripping us off from its increased fees is way more acceptable as i see).

It's like someone make a law which no one should ever talk about human atrocities because some people are offended by mankind who lives with. How about banning reality, too?

Quote from: Zeno Marx on August 22, 2013, 10:37:02 AM
I don't know if it is ridiculous or not.  They're a business and a resource, not an example or moral compass.  They're not only competing with the likes of eBay head-on, but they also face the same legal conflicts and potentials as eBay.  They want to be a flow-through third party, collect their fees, develop their apps and further their integration (a great tagging tool for Foobar, for example), build value, and all the while not end up on the hook for adolescent shit serious enough to get them flagged by governments and securities (PayPal).  It might be censorship, but it is also smart.

Agreed.  This may be a smart business move.  That doesn't make it much less offensive to folks who don't appreciate censorship, but when one has a business to run, protecting that enterprise is key.

I was always wondering when this day would come - I am afraid more will follow

Is the reason just that someone or a group of someones finds it offensive?  I'm not sure why people who are offended by things don't just avoid them.  You don't see me lobbying Wal-mart to stop selling Miley Cyrus CD's!!!

Quote from: Otomo_Hava on August 22, 2013, 02:56:27 PM
This action is irrational and senseless.

Discogs' supposed to be a database for ALL kinds of music according ALL subjects of inspiration (ripping us off from its increased fees is way more acceptable as i see).

It's like someone make a law which no one should ever talk about human atrocities because some people are offended by mankind who lives with. How about banning reality, too?

It's neither irrational, nor senseless.  Discogs has a growing presence throughout the music realm, and it has a growing share in the marketplace.  Many people, stores, and distros don't even sell on eBay any longer.  They use Discogs as their primary storefront.  I know if I decided to sell my collection tomorrow, next to message boards, I'd list on Discogs and not on eBay.  Don't fool yourself.  Discogs isn't an altruistic situation.  They're working their way into being a strong business.  The resource end will eventually be secondary (if it hasn't already happened).  They appear to be very business savvy.  I find it to be quite impressive, because I didn't recognize this aspect of Discogs for a long time.

I'm not familiar with Skrewdriver.  Do they have the imagery to make it easy for someone to draw attention?  If so, give it some time.  They'll likely get flagged.  With millions of entries on the site, they can't nail everything at once, and some stuff will slip through whatever process they have in place anyway.  Lots of gray area here.

And just to be clear, I'm not advocating any of this censorship.  It makes sense from business and growing public awareness perspectives.  That's all I'm saying.

And possibility of whole site being flagged as not suitable for public computer, work computer etc. I know at some point none of my sites was possible to access if computer had ("parental") programs what would filter the content. Not sure if this is question now.

I doubt any labels who get banned, are in position to try gain sympathy by asking "equal treatment". It is however curious where line will be drawn. Skrewdriver records are not generally very offensive looking, but I guess if one can sell No Remorse CD's like "Barbeque in Rostock" very long, it would be weird.

But like said, I'm not at all against idea that noise would go back from discogs to mailorders, trades between fans, classified ads etc.

QuoteAnd possibility of whole site being flagged as not suitable for public computer, work computer etc.

For a long time Discogs was blocked at my workplace (a company called Honeywell) but recently by accident I found out it's been allowed again. It was a weird decision to block it as it's not social media where I suppose it can be assumed a lot of people would spend their time instead of working (and Ebay has always been allowed). I wonder how long till they block it again sometime in the future.

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 22, 2013, 09:59:19 PM
But like said, I'm not at all against idea that noise would go back from discogs to mailorders, trades between fans, classified ads etc.

Or perhaps an alternative database exclusively for noise.

Quote from: Zeno Marx on August 22, 2013, 06:10:32 PM

Quote from: Otomo_Hava on August 22, 2013, 02:56:27 PM
This action is irrational and senseless.

Discogs' supposed to be a database for ALL kinds of music according ALL subjects of inspiration (ripping us off from its increased fees is way more acceptable as i see).

It's like someone make a law which no one should ever talk about human atrocities because some people are offended by mankind who lives with. How about banning reality, too?

It's neither irrational, nor senseless.  Discogs has a growing presence throughout the music realm, and it has a growing share in the marketplace.  Many people, stores, and distros don't even sell on eBay any longer.  They use Discogs as their primary storefront.  I know if I decided to sell my collection tomorrow, next to message boards, I'd list on Discogs and not on eBay.  Don't fool yourself.  Discogs isn't an altruistic situation.  They're working their way into being a strong business.  The resource end will eventually be secondary (if it hasn't already happened).  They appear to be very business savvy.  I find it to be quite impressive, because I didn't recognize this aspect of Discogs for a long time.

Thanks for helping me.
Thought it was about adding material as an informative aspect and its boundaries.

     In case you are not aware, Discogs changed their policy allowing the sale of all items well over a year ago as a result of Wade Michael Page. They sent out either an email, a message to your inbox, or posted it on a public forum of their's. I am positive that I read it the day it happened and it now seems that they are attempting to implement it. I tried googling it but I can't find it at the moment.

Quote from: jc on August 23, 2013, 12:30:48 AMIn case you are not aware, Discogs changed their policy allowing the sale of all items well over a year ago as a result of Wade Michael Page.

Yet that guy's bands are still allowed on sale at discogs.

It seems to be a decision based on notions of good taste rather than anything else. F&V and all the artists should congratulate themselves for successfully being so obnoxiously offensive that discogs remove their music before they remove the music of actual murderers!

Ultimately discogs can do whatever the hell they want with their business. Like when the Grey Wolves 'Catholic Priests Fuck Children' was removed from ebay many years ago, it's best to see the funny side of this.

Yeah, I can only see that as a victory.

I wrote them asking about the ban and got a reply with basically the same content as Bitewerks quoted above, but saying also that they are ready to discuss the matter.

If they get enough intelligent and polite requests and discussion, who knows if the ban will cease.

I also asked about general rules and its effects on industrial releases in general. Reply was that f&v decision might have been done in haste and ready to discuss of it. I told XE probably fits their category, but would be weird to band entire label where some releases like Concrete Mascara, Halthan, Golden Rain, Mania, Shift, etc etc. are hardly beyond just regular level of noise provocations.
As soon as word travels that one can send complaints and get stuff removed, I'm pretty sure some squat out there has more working staff in complaint department than discogs has manpower to fulfill their needs, hah...

I also mentioned them the industrial scene's documentary aspects as well as the traditional shock tactics. Good that they've got similar messages from different sources.

I tried out listing an End Apathy and Definite Hate record and the message I received was "Sorry, this release cannot be sold in the Discogs Marketplace. If you have questions please email us at marketplace at discogs dot com." You are correct that you can still sell Youngland albums though. Hilarious considering that you can buy a comp they were on called "White Pride World Wide V."

Quote from: HongKongGoolagong on August 23, 2013, 03:59:01 AM

Quote from: jc on August 23, 2013, 12:30:48 AMIn case you are not aware, Discogs changed their policy allowing the sale of all items well over a year ago as a result of Wade Michael Page.

Yet that guy's bands are still allowed on sale at discogs.

It seems to be a decision based on notions of good taste rather than anything else. F&V and all the artists should congratulate themselves for successfully being so obnoxiously offensive that discogs remove their music before they remove the music of actual murderers!

Ultimately discogs can do whatever the hell they want with their business. Like when the Grey Wolves 'Catholic Priests Fuck Children' was removed from ebay many years ago, it's best to see the funny side of this.

Not much to add here. Blanket censorship/restrictions on labels is obviously dumb. I mean what about Satanic Skinhead Propaganda / ADR? I thought Deathkey generally received a lot of hate mail and shit.

I see it as a good thing though. No more price gouging for OOP F&V releases through Discogs.

Quote from: algiz on August 22, 2013, 03:07:29 PM
I was always wondering when this day would come - I am afraid more will follow

More already have followed, but in Strange Way:

http://www.ovz-online.de/web/ovz/nachrichten/detail/-/specific/Nazi-Metal-in-Leipzig-Hessische-Beamte-durchsuchen-Wohnung-in-der-Messestadt-3593214875


For Non Germans, the Police have raidet a Black Metal label (again) and this Time also some Customers of the Label. Since its not Forbidden to Buy it, its absolute Strange to Raid the Customers at all.

Hah, seems like a good idea of myself to get some F&V titles for my distro (which I decided on before reading this).

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 22, 2013, 09:59:19 PM
But like said, I'm not at all against idea that noise would go back from discogs to mailorders, trades between fans, classified ads etc.

Indeed. Discogs is basically useful as a database and sometimes I buy stuff through it if it's stuff that I don't regularly see in distro's.
At the moment for my own distro, I sell most stuff through discogs. Not because that's the way I want it, but I use both a blogspot and discogs and most people (even some who got to know my distro through flyers) still get stuff through discogs. Of course you do have the ranking, which helps in seeing whether a seller is good, which you don't have through e-mail, but since there's the discogs fee and most items on there are paid for through paypal, I have quite some items for which I ask a bit more than on my blogspot...
Also, this way I have to keep both the discogs page and blogspot up to date.
To conclude, discogs is a useful tool, but I could run my distro without it. So for people reading this: yes, you can order through my blogspot and e-mail, you won't get ripped off, hehe.

And I do understand that from a business point of view it's a good decision they don't want to have some stuff sold through their website. I just hope they don't decide to get it banned from their website altogether, that would be a petty.

Quote from: ConcreteMascara on August 23, 2013, 06:59:13 PMI see it as a good thing though. No more price gouging for OOP F&V releases through Discogs.

Yeah, gouging tends to be a lot less common on message boards, so this is one advantage at least. A shame to see censorship on discogs though, I use it quite a lot.

fucking stupid..

Fuckin' censorship!!! I hate it!!
Art should be without censorship!

Got this response today - one day after I sent Discogs a minor constructive rant. Will put in some more weighted thoughts and formulations. Seems like there is a possibility as many have mentioned that DC will lift the ban on some titles. Nevertheless what happens I strongly suggest that if you are a F&V or noise fanatic that you drop DC a short  letter. This is important for all artists and our field of work.


Hi T,

I am sorry that the error message offers outdated information. I have created a project in our work queue to get that fixed.

Thank you for your thoughtful message about this label. You can find a forum post from me yesterday explaining what is happening with policy: http://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/52165eaf4c5e2e7743646c8e#5216794faba9e808c299f552

As for this particular label, they may have been blocked in haste and I can discuss unblocking them with you.
http://www.discogs.com/label/Filth+And+Violence

As with any case, we cannot listen to the contents of all of these, but have mostly imagery and titles to go off of. In looking through the content of that label, I can see why the instinct was to block the sale of those items. Does the content of each release reflect its title?

I mentioned in the forum thread that we have been dealing with these on a case by case basis, currently working on the best method to reflect the kind of community we wish to be. It is definitely a tricky line and we acknowledge that there are controversial titles and releases with artistic merit. We are mostly interested in not supporting the sale of items that propagate extreme hate. Thank you for the conversation.

I will be reviewing the label on an individual artist basis early next week, discussing with the team here, and look forward to your response. Thank you.

Best,

Leeann

You can't really call this censorship. They haven't removed F&V from the database, just stopped selling it. I am very sure the people running Discogs don't really care about stuff like this, they are mainly concerned with making money. As Discogs get bigger and more well known it will obviously attract more people and more interest. If some crappy newspaper runs a story that their site is making money from WP releases then it's going to look pretty bad for them with a potential of loosing money. I bet that's the main reason they are doing this.

From a social perspective, I abhor someone deciding what is right or wrong for me to see, hear, experience etc. From a business perspective, I guess I can understand why a website would want to avoid any potential negative implications of handling any monies as a result of the sale of these items. Unfortunately, the decision seems to be somewhat knee-jerk and slap-dash, but a website/database/whatever like Discogs is not specifically there for noise et al. so a lack of awareness of the content of this material is probably to be expected I would have thought. They want to protect themselves as at the end of the day.

However, as has been pointed out the "hate ban" has not yet caught up with material many would consider to be exactly what they would want to cut out, but realistically can they cast a net that catches everything consistently without feedback from moralists and without missing something that slips through while their backs are turned? Doubtful. A mammoth task, I'm sure, and therefore will likely always be inconsistent or at times contradictory.

Quote from: bitewerksMTB on August 25, 2013, 12:03:36 AMI don't really buy the 'we don't want to make money off of racist music' excuse. They didn't mind it much for however many years until this policy kicked in.

They may very well not buy it themselves, it's PR isn't it? Possibly something has happened and they have made F&V an example as a result (why F&V in particular, who knows?), or possibly some cunt has had a whinge to them and whilst the reality is they possibly don't actually care that much at all they've had to take some action to maintain their professional "standards". That they are prepared to discuss and consider overturning the ban certainly suggests it wasn't done as a result of any research as otherwise they could refuse to discuss and provide evidence for why which, based on the responses you all seem to be getting, doesn't seem to be forthcoming.

Their MO is to tell people they will address problem X, and then years pass with nothing done.  They often sell the snakeoil of "it's coming soon".  Maybe they'll prove that habit wrong with this, but I wouldn't count on it.  They've been telling buyers "the option to block sellers" is coming soon for a couple years now.  You know, the sellers who update their list every other day and flood your email with updates?  Buyers have been asking for a way to block them for a very long time.  It hasn't happened yet.

Quote from: bitewerksMTB on August 25, 2013, 12:03:36 AM
How the hell did F&V get noticed but not a bunch of other, much more obvious (& known) bands/labels?!?

Quote from: martialgodmask on August 25, 2013, 12:37:04 AMPossibly something has happened and they have made F&V an example as a result (why F&V in particular, who knows?)

Back in the 1990s when test laws on internet hate speech were happening, French authorities decided to try them out on Jean-Louis Costes for his bad taste comedy CDs rather than more obvious hatemongers. I think the theory is if they pick on some kind of crazy artist rather than the real thing, there will be fewer people to defend what just seems like, well, filth and violence to the average person. If a precedent of censorship is set that way, no one but the obscure artist notices at first.

I imagine that things are banned based on complaints, no? And lots of punk people and what have you seem to find industrial-related bands to be much more of a threat than a lot of RAC and just legitimately racist bands, for some reason.

I don't know any punks who would know what this stuff is, and punk in 2013 is about as watered down and non-political as it has ever been.  Punk is no longer issue-oriented or social based.  It mirrors society pretty accurately in most respects.  It's on the verge, as a whole, to be bona fide libertarianism with a high thumbing at the liberalism of the past.  Maybe Europe is different, but the US definitely isn't very political or moral.

If I was to point fingers with nothing better to do, my first assumption would be a parent.  Some kid buys a cassette with a guy covered in shit in a shower stall, and the mother sees it in their room.  Paid with their credit card number or paypal account.  as the story goes...

Some of you folks should write for a newspaper.  They love journalists who can stir up a frenzy without a lick of any evidence.

QuoteThey want to protect themselves as at the end of the day.

I could understand this, if they draw a clear line, but to make a Marketplace for Bootlegs is the opposite of Protecting Themselves. I have had whole Time wondered, why no Big Company Like Emi or Gema fucked them up with their Thousands of Bootlegs, since they did it on Ebay since Years. So, for the Company the Selling of Nazi Stuff is much more Harmless" than Selling Fake Stuff. For the Image of the Site, its of course better to bann just Nazi Stuff. All other is no Problem so long nobody Cry about it.

QuoteWhat's funny  is you can't sell or buy  F&V releases that very few will ever look at or come across but you can buy or sell everything by Skrewdriver, the most well-known racist rock band EVER.

Maybe it will come, since in the Forum are Several Pointings to them. But as in some Countries, the Whole RAC Music is just Partial Banned, a Lot runs under "Harmless". I think in Germany are also just some Lps banned.

Some bootlegs too: http://www.discogs.com/help/forums/topic/362723

For me, discogs.com never functioned as a marketplace, but for a correct database only... so, the sale-banning thing doesn't effect me. Anyway, I think it's a very old fashioned p.c, and useless thing to ban releases to sell, just for their title/artwork. The reason is simple: discogs.com do NOTHING with the idealogy of the artists, or the people who collect the artists' releases. It's a private thing, so why ban it? About the censorship:, or delete whole releases: It's useless, especially in this case, because none of the actual releases contains material, that actually really hurt the law. I mean, child pornography and shit like that... but some adult pornographic, or 'weird' gory stuff? They have common legality nowadays on the net, and in this case, they are just artist expressions. Well, solution? Maybe a +18 pre-window on each release with such a content? It could be still better, than block whole releases from market, or even the whole site.

Quote from: SNR on August 25, 2013, 06:35:58 PM
none of the actual releases contains material, that actually really hurt the law

Depends on what country you are living in.. German laws are pretty strict.

It's a good thing that people are paying attention to this kind of thing; just as it is good that punks or neo-hippies or new agers or politicos are paying attention to social issues and philosophical inconsistencies.  Because, if nobody is paying attention...well, nobody is then paying attention.  Business loves when nobody is paying attention.  It's the fringe that [at the very least] keeps all these things on the radar.  It doesn't usually balance things, but it acts as some kind of checks & balance.  They need to answer to someone, even if that someone cannot do a damn thing about anything other than demanding some accountability.  Gnats are part of a healthy ecosystem.

I was just informed that the Satanic Skinhead Propaganda release of VAGINAL JESUS "Affirmative Apartheid" is no longer allowed to be sold on Discogs. Apparently, when Discogs was written to ask the reasoning behind this, they received the same blanket statement that seems to be what everyone else is receiving. This is just the beginning and more will most assuredly follow.

My opinion on this matter is varied and there are many different angles that one can view and approach this situation.

Some questions that others who have stores with hundreds and or thousands of releases in stock at Discogs should ask and ascertain what their criteria will be for deciding which releases/bands will not be allowed to be sold on the site any longer are:

- Will they instate a "zero tolerance" and "equal" set of rules that will be hard line/stringent and without any exceptions?

- If so, will EVERY release that falls under, for example, "Racial discrimination" fall into the category of "not able to be sold on the Discogs marketplace"?.

- If this is indeed the case and will be put into effect under their rules and guidlines, will releases by SKREWDRIVER be looked at any differently than those by black rap "artists" such as DA LENCH MOB, ICE CUBE, DR DRE and countless others who have racially discriminating and derogatory lyrics towards non Blacks?

-Will records with lyrics such as:

"Fuck them laws, because the Mob is coming raw; nigga, is you down because it's the Final Call. . . . grab your gat; know the three will start busting; I'm trying to take them down. . . . the war of wars with no fucking scores. . . . April 29 was a chance to realize . . . the g.'s are out to kill. . . . we got crackers to kill; sending them back in on a ship to Europe. . . . they deserve it. . . . a nation-wide riot across America. . . . this is the Final Call on black man and black woman, rich and poor; rise up";
--"Final Call"; Da Lench Mob, Planet of da Apes, 1994, Priority Records, Thorn EMI; now called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"We're having thoughts of overthrowing the government. . . . the brothers and sisters threw their fists in the air. . . . it's open season on crackers, you know; the morgue will be full of Caucasian John Doe's. . . . I make the Riot shit look like a fairy tale. . . . oh my god, Allah, have mercy; I'm killing them devils because they're not worthy to walk the earth with the original black man; they must be forgetting; it's time for Armageddon, and I won't rest until they're all dead";
--"Goin Bananas"; Da Lench Mob, Planet of da Apes, 1994, Priority Records, Thorn EMI; now called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

"He preys on old white ladies [who] drive the Mercedes with the windows cracked. . . . you should've heard the bitch screaming. . . . sticking guns in crackers' mouths. . . . the cops can't stop it. . . . remember 4-29-92, come on; Florence and Normandy coming to a corner near you, cracker; we've been through your area, mass hysteria; led by your motherfucking Menace Clan";
--"Mad Nigga"; Menace Clan, Da Hood, 1995, Rap-A-Lot Records, Noo Trybe Records, Time Warner, USA.

be deemed "unacceptable to be sold in the Discogs marketplace" because they clearly are racially discriminatory and violent? Or will they be exempt because SONY, TIME WARNER/WARNER BROTHERS, UNIVERSAL, EMI and the like released those records? Will their decision also be based upon the fact they see no reason to not allow those records to be sold within their marketplace, as one can easily purchase any of those records at Walmart, Target, gas stations, flea markets etc?

- Will their decision also be based upon the fact that those records are pressed in the hundreds of thousands, and some such as ICE CUBE, in the millions and are distributed by the largest Record Companies in the world?

- Will Discogs enforce their rules across the board, and "equally" to ANY record that falls under that category, whether released by small independent, underground labels such as Filth & Violence and Satanic Skinhead Propaganda, or released by the 3 largest mainstream labels in the world, Universal, Sony and Warner?

If I had a store on Discogs that primarily stocks and sells underground music that caters to those with "Taboo" interests, and this decision could potentially cause my business to lose what could possibly be thousands of dollars, I would expect these questions to be answered.

However, we all know the answer to every question already.

Quote from: ADR on August 26, 2013, 09:06:14 PMIf I had a store on Discogs that primarily stocks and sells underground music that caters to those with "Taboo" interests, and this decision could potentially cause my business to lose what could possibly be thousands of dollars, I would expect these questions to be answered.

This is one of the ignored vulnerabilities with depending on eBay, Amazon, Discogs, Etsy, or any middle-man internet entity.  You're at their mercy and whim.  This story is unrelated, but not entirely so.  Sellers have few rights in such relationships, and it is best to leave expectations at the door and to keep yourself on high-alert.  It's interesting.  You want to be your own boss, only to find you have a different kind of boss that is every bit as powerful as the other bosses.  Stay paranoid, friends.  Their rules are floating, not static.
http://www.startupnation.com/business-blogs/index.php/2013/05/22/third-party-sellers-need-to-rethink-theamazon-fba-program (http://www.startupnation.com/business-blogs/index.php/2013/05/22/third-party-sellers-need-to-rethink-theamazon-fba-program)

QuoteOr will they be exempt because SONY, TIME WARNER/WARNER BROTHERS, UNIVERSAL, EMI and the like released those records?

Idioticaly and Ironic the Answer is the same like Grindcore/Death Metal: The Bands are good, nice People and doesn't mean it in any REAL Way, its just Fantasy and we all should love each other and tolerate such Teeny behaviour, since Bla bla bla bla...
Its fucking often that Neo Nazi=NO Go and all other Shit is just Entertainment, but when Real History starts, the Fun is Over...Stop, just Concentrated on Nazi Stuff, since Christians Bashing, Middle Age Blobbering and other Idiotic Storytelling is of course no Problem. So, feed the Lions, but let the Gasmask at Home

Quote from: bitewerksMTB on August 26, 2013, 10:26:40 PM
eBay & Discogs should only be used as tools to sell, not what you depend on entirely. If you run a full-fledged distro/label then having a proper website makes more sense then Discogs can be used for selling used or rare items.

If you deal in 'hate' then you'll have to find another way. Maybe set up a website in the Deep Web which would make you ultra-cool and underground. Maybe Silk Road can add a music section...

This is correct, and should be the way that things are handled. The issue is, and I have seen this myself even though I do not have a full distro, that many people who buy releases today want to feel a sense of "security" when buying from an underground label/band/individual etc, and that security is found when purchasing through outlets such as Ebay, Gemm, Discogs and so on. That is the unfortunate truth and case in point, RRRon has told me that without Ebay, he would not survive, as the online store as well as the actual storefront do very little business in comparison to the sales on Ebay/Discogs. It does not matter how fancy or easy a label's store is to navigate or use either. I know this firsthand with running SSP/ADR for over the last decade. I can put a release out and sell a certain amount direct, and any label that carries my releases that sells on Ebay comes for restocks faster than ANY normal distro. Deathgasm for example, can sell my cd's in greater volume than I can, and even for upwards to $15 a cd BEFORE shipping through Ebay sales in comparison to my $10 postage paid direct.

Again, the Discogs change does not affect me, nor do I have an opinion on it, but I do know that some such as Crucial Blast and RRRecords depend on such outlets, and it is a shame that both and many others will more than likely feel the effect of this. Malignant Records and both mentioned are as integral as Freak Animal and Filth & Violence in my eyes for distributing underground music and art effectively and efficiently, and of the highest volume and regard. I would hope that this does not do as much damage as could be possible, but knowing that RRRon sells all of my releases through Discogs and Ebay, and now may be potentially stopped from doing so, is a cause for concern.

Time will tell.

Quote from: Goat93 on August 26, 2013, 10:13:35 PM

QuoteOr will they be exempt because SONY, TIME WARNER/WARNER BROTHERS, UNIVERSAL, EMI and the like released those records?

Idioticaly and Ironic the Answer is the same like Grindcore/Death Metal: The Bands are good, nice People and doesn't mean it in any REAL Way, its just Fantasy and we all should love each other and tolerate such Teeny behaviour, since Bla bla bla bla...
Its fucking often that Neo Nazi=NO Go and all other Shit is just Entertainment, but when Real History starts, the Fun is Over...Stop, just Concentrated on Nazi Stuff, since Christians Bashing, Middle Age Blobbering and other Idiotic Storytelling is of course no Problem. So, feed the Lions, but let the Gasmask at Home

What is this, an album track list? I don't get it.

Quote from: bitewerksMTB on August 26, 2013, 10:26:40 PM
Maybe Silk Road can add a music section...

YES! Laughed my ass of. Very good comment.

I think it's pretty funny that they'll keep all of it in it's database but won't sell it.  On a side note, discogs  can go fuck itself.

i don't really understand the problem / surprise. if you want to get into the club you shouldn't be wearing a swastika t-shirt. it's simple.

I think problem is not discogs not allowing provocations, but that baby was thrown with the bath water.
To just get rid of "hate speech" a'la Xena Ejaculation, it took away possibilities of selling vast amount of other releases. I recall F&V has catalogue near 100 titles including bands a'la Mania, Coma Detox, Caligula304, Golden Rain, Halthan, Shift, Concrete Mascara, etc etc...  And also this meant that whatever releases some label has done as co-release with F&V is removed. Meaning few of Freak Animal or Untergeschoss titles can't be sold as F&V has co-released them.

I mentioned to Discogs staff, and they admitted banning entire label might have been done in haste and they'd put this case aside and look in future remove the ban of label, but just pick the offensive releases out. I advised that the mentioned XE is probably something that violates their policy, but it's hard to say what other titles would. If that would be the case, then by same logic basically any noise & pe releases could be banned.

I don't have anything to gain in this as I have not sold in discogs anything more than my personal collection removals - most of all noise CDR's.

But I do appreciate it that people tone down their "can suck my cock" type of responses if place is actually willing to look into matter if one simply asked them to do so...

its always Problematic for Outsiders to Judge about the Contex. So, No wonder they use the "Easiest" Way.

Quote from: Cementimental on August 27, 2013, 01:51:04 AM
What is this, an album track list? I don't get it.

A Text for People who can read Books, instead of Comix.


For you:



You can get the same Answer, if you ask about Grindcore/Death Metal Banning:

The Bandmembers are good,funny, lovely and nice People, who wouldn't Hurt anyone. The Lyrics and the Artwork are just Provocation.

Bla bla bla bla... means Blablabla

There is a Big Difference between Nazi Stuff and all other Provocating Stuff.

Nazi=No Go

all other Shit = Just Entertainment

1 possible Reason: !Historical Cruelty of the Nazis!

Idiotic: Christians bashing is NO Problem, so its absolute Ok to Praise the Lions in the Circus:

(http://lindagailwestrich.ipage.com/lindasblog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/christians_fed_to_lions1.jpg)

i took this Example, since it has a Historical matter. I could also use a Race Example, like ADR already used.
But i havn't, as you can see (or not).


End Sentence:

So, feed the Lions, but let the Gasmask at Home

(The Lions refers to my Example, the Gasmask to the Nazi Images. The End Sentence is Sarcasm)


I can draw Bubbles around the Sentences and make some Funny Looking Figures. But this would take a while to Scan. But No Problem about it

Quote from: ADR on August 26, 2013, 11:40:49 PM
The issue is, and I have seen this myself even though I do not have a full distro, that many people who buy releases today want to feel a sense of "security" when buying from an underground label/band/individual etc, and that security is found when purchasing through outlets such as Ebay, Gemm, Discogs and so on.

Indeed. Even though my distro is only running since a couple of months, I already noticed this. Most clear example was when a guy who got one of my flyers from a friend of mine (the flyer only has the url of the blogspot on it) ordered some stuff through discogs, then picked it up at my house, since he works nearby where I live... And apart from that, I use both discogs and blogspot, but most of my orders come through discogs...
Also, if you want to feel safe, you still can ask to pay through paypal, that gives you more safety than some discogs rating. (As was proven to me recently when trying to deal with the Signal Rex rip off.)
On the other hand, I know I've ordered from distros through discogs as well (when it's stuff I'm not too familiar with, such as punk), because it's not always clear what the name of the distro is, when the name of the discogs user isn't the same as the distro/label (as is often the case, for example with Phage Tapes).

Quote from: Goat93 on August 27, 2013, 11:53:32 AM
its always Problematic for Outsiders to Judge about the Contex. So, No wonder they use the "Easiest" Way.

Quote from: Cementimental on August 27, 2013, 01:51:04 AM
What is this, an album track list? I don't get it.

A Text for People who can read Books, instead of Comix.


For you:



You can get the same Answer, if you ask about Grindcore/Death Metal Banning:

The Bandmembers are good,funny, lovely and nice People, who wouldn't Hurt anyone. The Lyrics and the Artwork are just Provocation.

Bla bla bla bla... means Blablabla

There is a Big Difference between Nazi Stuff and all other Provocating Stuff.

Nazi=No Go

all other Shit = Just Entertainment

1 possible Reason: !Historical Cruelty of the Nazis!

Idiotic: Christians bashing is NO Problem, so its absolute Ok to Praise the Lions in the Circus:

(http://lindagailwestrich.ipage.com/lindasblog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/christians_fed_to_lions1.jpg)

i took this Example, since it has a Historical matter. I could also use a Race Example, like ADR already used.
But i havn't, as you can see (or not).


End Sentence:

So, feed the Lions, but let the Gasmask at Home

(The Lions refers to my Example, the Gasmask to the Nazi Images. The End Sentence is Sarcasm)


I can draw Bubbles around the Sentences and make some Funny Looking Figures. But this would take a while to Scan. But No Problem about it

yeah that seems even more like a series of disjointed randomly capitalised statements but thanks anyway. Might actually make a comic and/or noisecore record out of it now you mention the idea :)

Quote from: Cementimental on August 27, 2013, 05:45:42 PM
yeah that seems even more like a series of disjointed randomly capitalised statements but thanks anyway. Might actually make a comic and/or noisecore record out of it now you mention the idea :)

Oh, thats for free. Comix must be Grammar Free Zone.

:-)

Quote from: FreakAnimalFinland on August 27, 2013, 09:09:51 AM

But I do appreciate it that people tone down their "can suck my cock" type of responses if place is actually willing to look into matter if one simply asked them to do so...

I register there are a few flaming emotional debates and cocky comments on the discogs thread re the F&V issue/fascistic music complaint. They doesn't assist in releasing the ban to be honest. Its quite polarized the discussion and they combatants will probably never see eye to eye. Hopefully people have enough sense not to lear off comments that will set the Jewish debatant afire. That would certainly be the last straw. For what goes here in SPIF and on the discogs thread it is two different things. Then again, SPIF is an open forum, but prob not monitored by Discogs. They aren't NSA exactly.  

GREAT call on the fact that religion bashing is just fine.  Rape, cannibalism, sodomy, just fine.  They'll take their cut of any of those records.  But blatant racism they have an issue with?  Granted, I do attempt to not support blatantly racist bands, but I guess I own plenty of albums with the other issues made light of.

This is stupid from a music point of view, but probably not a bad idea from a business standpoint. 

More online idiots.

Some guy posted this image and text below in several FB noise groups. It pisses me off that people don't do they're homework. Is this too much to ask or expect? Its due to ignorant humans like this that is impossible to have any proper dialog in the public.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1240570_10201363949887929_1663011174_n.jpg)

THESE BANDS ARE NAZIS : .................................... Con-Dom, NON, Theologian, Nueva Germania, Brighter Death Now, Navicon Torture Technologies, Sektor 304, Xenophobic Ejaculation, Bagman, Singular Cleansweep Operations, Xiphoid Dementia, Swollen Korps, Felony Sexual Assault, Genocide Lolita, Control Resistance, Brethren, Hatekod, Wertham, Control Resistance, Bereft, Hermann Kop, Deathkey, Iron Youth, Deustche Christen, Boyd Rice .................................................. IS YOUR DECISION SUPPORT THEM OR NOT.

Good news, at least to some degree. Got this message from discogs today:

Hi,

We have removed the label from the block, however, will be taking the time to go through the artists and block the sale of some as we see fit. While we do understand artists pushing boundaries and the like, we can still choose as a company to not support artists we feel promote hate and violence and it is likely that some will be blocked. Thank you for participating in the conversation.

Best,

L

Quote from: online prowler on August 29, 2013, 02:22:11 AM
More online idiots.

Some guy posted this image and text below in several FB noise groups. It pisses me off that people don't do they're homework. Is this too much to ask or expect? Its due to ignorant humans like this that is impossible to have any proper dialog in the public.

Some people throw that kind of image and response around just to get a rise out of people.  Sound familiar to the conversation? In that case, they're playing right along with the spirit of it all, correct?  Many possible nonliteral reasons for posting that image in particular. And hey, when you toy with ambiguity as a tool, it shouldn't be any big surprise when someone gets you wrong.  That's the point, correct?  To Test.  To manipulate. To incite.  To push buttons.  Success.

Quote from: bitewerksMTB on August 29, 2013, 02:48:26 AM
I'm surprised they unblocked F&V. Everything I clicked on except XE was unblocked.

If the glorification or promotion of violence is an issue then they have a lot of work ahead blocking death metal, black metal, & shitloads of rap releases.

I was unaware that Hermann Kopp was a Nazi. "Support them or not"- what other choice do we have? To be indifferent? That's me. I just don't care as long as I can sell my records for sky-high prices.

What do you give me for this magnitude of ludicrous statement they pull? Hæ? Its quite the George Bush "With us or against us" rhetoric applied when fine reading the statement "Support them or not". Are they implying I as a reader am a nazi since I don't see eye to eye with their statement. So be it. On a note: Different is the place to be for me as well. BW, I pray you will be shot to legend-hood and become dirt rich by the end of the year!

Quote from: Zeno Marx on August 29, 2013, 02:59:40 AM

Quote from: online prowler on August 29, 2013, 02:22:11 AM
More online idiots.

Some guy posted this image and text below in several FB noise groups. It pisses me off that people don't do they're homework. Is this too much to ask or expect? Its due to ignorant humans like this that is impossible to have any proper dialog in the public.

Some people throw that kind of image and response around just to get a rise out of people.  Sound familiar to the conversation? In that case, they're playing right along with the spirit of it all, correct?  Many possible nonliteral reasons for posting that image in particular. And hey, when you toy with ambiguity as a tool, it shouldn't be any big surprise when someone gets you wrong.  That's the point, correct?  To Test.  To manipulate. To incite.  To push buttons.  Success.

It is important to be aware of the context and work one is doing. ZM, I see your point which of course is evident. Then again, from another vista where one seriously is working on a longterm basis from 'inside' a stance to explore/criticize a topic is a old and known strategy in music and art production. So in this sense your response fall to fish so to speak. Not everything is a joke, but when exploring the boundaries one do of course have to be aware of the map one is taking a look at. If not, the investigation will fall on its ass. There is also a fundamental political difference in how - in general - the left and the right approach and utilize art in their causes. In short, the left see art and its expressions as a tool to divulge political content and struggle, while the right value esthetics as a means of presentation and political staging. Walter Benjamin, a brilliant communist and cultural researcher, wrote a lot about this. In effect, there is an indoctrinated (too harsh a word?) reading of some noise output, when said production is approach from a "red" standpoint in addition to not doing proper research on artists. I remember Death in June had similar accusations hanging over them at one point. So did William Bennett earlier this year when he was to do a Cut hands gig in Italy and received treats. And none of them in their current carriers have used any negative interpreted artistic expressions. That is if one don't deduct Bennett to be a flaming racist since he uses African related patterns/art on his covers. That would be an ignorant and slandering assumption. So, when speaking of playing around w imagery I would say the poster-maker above is doing exactly that.        

Quote from: online prowler on August 29, 2013, 02:22:11 AM
THESE BANDS ARE NAZIS : .................................... Con-Dom, NON, Theologian, Nueva Germania, Brighter Death Now, Navicon Torture Technologies, Sektor 304, Xenophobic Ejaculation, Bagman, Singular Cleansweep Operations, Xiphoid Dementia, Swollen Korps, Felony Sexual Assault, Genocide Lolita, Control Resistance, Brethren, Hatekod, Wertham, Control Resistance, Bereft, Hermann Kop, Deathkey, Iron Youth, Deustche Christen, Boyd Rice .................................................. IS YOUR DECISION SUPPORT THEM OR NOT.

I haven't actually heard of quite a few of these artists but how in the name of hell are Felony Sexual Assault Nazis? They have one tape on True Force/Pain Electronics which has no mention of any race issues, lots about sexual violence but nothing about race.

Nazis sexually assault, I suppose. Perhaps?
Wertham, Nazi? Singular Cleansweep Operations? BDN I never associated w/ right-wing stuff. Actually, a lot of them on that list are not 'Nazi'. What's a Nazi, anyway? Probably NONE of them are actually Nazis, since the Nazis are long gone!

The above facebook spam nazi-list thing is hilarious, hope he's trolling and it's so hilariously random and inaccurate that I think he must be but there's no limit to facebook stupidity so who knows.

Re: the old 'OH BUT HIPHOP ARTISTS ARE VIOLENT AND RACIST TOO' thing; that's a neither insightful nor useful statement; it's an obvious fact that ('real' or otherwise) nazi/white power themes in underground music occupy a totally different historical, cultural, commercial and class role in our society to mainstream/popular rap lyrics so it's neither surprising nor 'wrong' that people are going to treat them very differently whether you like it or not. And as an argument against certain artists being banned on some music nerd website, it's going to be a total failure because most 'normal' people will, rightly or wrongly but understandably, just go ahead and read it as 'I AM RACIST PLEASE IGNORE MY OPINIONS.'

QuoteSo did William Bennett earlier this year when he was to do a Cut hands gig in Italy and received treats.

cute typo :3

Since you blaming others about typo, your's not even better.

QuotePosted by: burdizzo
Insert Quote
Nazis sexually assault, I suppose. Perhaps?
Wertham, Nazi? Singular Cleansweep Operations? BDN I never associated w/ right-wing stuff. Actually, a lot of them on that list are not 'Nazi'. What's a Nazi, anyway? Probably NONE of them are actually Nazis, since the Nazis are long gone!

People will make it as easy as Possible by Judging about something, they have no Clue about. Songtitles, Images, Interviews ect ect works fine to make clear, what is Nazi and what is also Nazi. There are no "oh they aren't Nazi, i must have been wrong". No Place for this in the Little Minds. Sometimes i got the Feeling that this Censoring Debatte and Nazi here and Nazi there is just for the own Pleasure and Penis Enlargement of the People. There are every Year Discussions on the WGT Related Message Boards/Forums about Nazi Stuff and like "Dinner for One", the Answers and Questions are absolute the same. If i want to make someone >NAZI< its easy. To clarifiy this, its nearly Impossible.

edit:

That the Image above is Useless, should be clear if you read it.

Boyd Rice and NOn, 2x Control Resistance. Singular Cleansweep Operation and no Operation Cleansweep?

Quote from: Cementimental on August 29, 2013, 02:29:34 PM

QuoteSo did William Bennett earlier this year when he was to do a Cut hands gig in Italy and received treats.

cute typo :3

Hæ!Hæ! LOL That didn't come out correct at all. Loved your comment Cementimental. But then again, maybe he did receive treats?

On another note. You make an interesting point. To the common man in the fields what we are discussing is similar to fine-tuning details. In broad strokes when an outsider look at a swatzy cover his thoughts will probably lead to fascism. Nevertheless I think it is important that we as artists and interested parties make our own distinctions and definitions. This is our privilege and responsibility. On another note, I am happy to see F&V releases plus are returning to D.C.  

F&V removed, now its Clandestine Blaze and Nicole 12.

We should start a List about what is Banned Today and removed Tomorrow

i was really disappointed to see Smell & Quim never made that list - genuine 'pro NAZI, pro rape, pro paedo music' - everyone on that list are imposters or just bad heavy metal.

Quote from: online prowler on August 29, 2013, 02:22:11 AM
More online idiots.

Some guy posted this image and text below in several FB noise groups. It pisses me off that people don't do they're homework. Is this too much to ask or expect? Its due to ignorant humans like this that is impossible to have any proper dialog in the public.


THESE BANDS ARE NAZIS : .................................... Con-Dom, NON, Theologian, Nueva Germania, Brighter Death Now, Navicon Torture Technologies, Sektor 304, Xenophobic Ejaculation, Bagman, Singular Cleansweep Operations, Xiphoid Dementia, Swollen Korps, Felony Sexual Assault, Genocide Lolita, Control Resistance, Brethren, Hatekod, Wertham, Control Resistance, Bereft, Hermann Kop, Deathkey, Iron Youth, Deustche Christen, Boyd Rice .................................................. IS YOUR DECISION SUPPORT THEM OR NOT.

probably a troll, there is no sense in the list: Hermann Kop??? what has he done???

the comments on his fb are hilarious anyway

and then, why band clandestine blaze???

That picture made me laugh.

I don't have time to look at facebook, and I think that the internet is creating too many platforms and temptations do throw these images up and around without too much thought put behind it.
I don't appreciate the idea that some other users of this form use facebook so much that it's an expected topic of discussion here.
People will put up smoke screens to distract or troll or show off their idiocy, or out of boredom. The excessive and widespread use of these new, arguably necessary, platforms of discussion are exposing too many people to the images and leaving the door wide open to misinterpretation and blatant censorship.

Quote from: Zeno Marx on August 22, 2013, 03:24:29 AM
Considering Discogs started out as an experimental database, indicating they should be accustomed to the silly shit involved with it, it's somewhat humorous to think they'll have to draw a line at what is appropriate and what is not.

Agreed.

Quote from: Mikerdeath on August 30, 2013, 09:04:12 PM
I don't have time to look at facebook, and I think that the internet is creating too many platforms and temptations do throw these images up and around without too much thought put behind it.
I don't appreciate the idea that some other users of this form use facebook so much that it's an expected topic of discussion here.
People will put up smoke screens to distract or troll or show off their idiocy, or out of boredom. The excessive and widespread use of these new, arguably necessary, platforms of discussion are exposing too many people to the images and leaving the door wide open to misinterpretation and blatant censorship.

Well put.

Quote from: nullify on August 30, 2013, 04:34:19 PM
That picture made me laugh.

Me too

It looks like the character is doing the sieg heil salute.

Quote from: blackoperations on August 30, 2013, 11:50:11 AM
i was really disappointed to see Smell & Quim never made that list - genuine 'pro NAZI, pro rape, pro paedo music' - everyone on that list are imposters or just bad heavy metal.

Re-open Auschwitz - fuck her and kill her in the sandpit!

I see some brave lunatic has finally uploaded the cover of 'Jesus Christ' to discogs - for many years the back of the sleeve was all that was displayed.

Quote from: bitewerksMTB on August 25, 2013, 12:03:36 AM

One comment on the thread that Discogs sent me a link to, someone notes that the U.S. lacks hate speech laws- do most people in Europe support such laws? Mildly off-topic but I figured I'd ask.

"those who favor safety over liberty deserve neither safety nor liberty". that quote is one of the reasons I became a libertarian. also one of the reasons I'll never set foot in Europe, unless its Russia.

A somebody who runs one of the labels that will probably have to deal with this at some point or another, I think it is unfortunate that they decided to do this but understand their side of the issue too. Anything that gets people to go back and order from actual labels & distributors is in my mind a plus though.

Nicole 12 is now banned!

Has anyone considered that all this may be due to one or two individuals being on a mission? The targets are easy but more than that they are the same ones that have caused a lot of upset with some individuals before.

Quote from: GEWALTMONOPOL on August 31, 2013, 01:21:16 PM
Has anyone considered that all this may be due to one or two individuals being on a mission? The targets are easy but more than that they are the same ones that have caused a lot of upset with some individuals before.

We will fight them at the beaches!

I think also some of these connected. You find one, you find next just clicking what else artists or label does. It may be someone reporting. It may be simply one checking out one offensive act, and following the easy system provided by discogs to check out what else particular artist has done.

They may be doing everyone a favour, a good ol bit of controversy never hurt in selling records..

Discogs seems Strange lately in Some Ways. Adding something in their Discography is now also Fucking Complicated with their Wished about every little Information. So, Fuck them anyway. Is good to Buy/Sell and look for Infos, but a Pain in the Ass, if you must Talk with these Idiots

Quote from: ironfistofthesun on August 31, 2013, 07:23:21 PM
They may be doing everyone a favour, a good ol bit of controversy never hurt in selling records..

Well, you should be happy now then. IFOTS made the nazi band list today on fistbook. Think Mikko have a point. Looks like one or a few individuals. None the less, even though serious, this is starting to be very funny now. I hope for his own sake this is some elaborate trolling scheme. It cannot be possible to be so ill-informed and daft.

Sergi White Noise Dada
THESE BANDS ARE NAZIS ................................................................. NON, Brethren, Hatestylez, Sick Seed, Pain Nail, Deathkey, Xenophobic Ejaculation, Death in June, Blood Axis, NS Ninja, Panzer SS, Vinland Special Services, The Streetcleaner, Iron Fist of the Sun, Aryan Assault, Vinland SS, Todesengel, Karma Yoga 88, The Art Of Eugenics, Folkstorm, Von Thronstahl, Con-Dom, Sturmführer, Tank Genocide, Ethnic Acid, Allerseelen, Boyd Rice, etc .... IS YOUR DECISION SUPPORT THEM OR NOT.
http://www.satanichatefulwarskin.com/
http://vinlandss.wordpress.com/
http://uprisedirect.blogspot.com.es/
http://www.nwnprod.com/forum/index.php

EDIT: Seems he deleted them. Anyway, still a lot shit on his site slandering at least FA.

It's not much use give space for all sorts of dorks wasting everybodys time.
If someone is strongly offended by some releases on someones discography or mailorder, it's hardly news in underground.
Thinking that still these days, even NON gigs can get cancelled due his dubious politics...  aahahah... !

Quote
Well, you should be happy now then. IFOTS made the nazi band list today on fistbook. Think Mikko have a point. Looks like one or a few individuals. None the less, even though serious, this is starting to be very funny now. I hope for his own sake this is some elaborate trolling scheme. It cannot be possible to be so ill-informed and daft.

.. His list is pathetic .."Ethnic acid"...almost like he has seen
racial terms in band names and automatically assumed they have an agenda.

Quote from: Goat93 on August 31, 2013, 08:16:41 PM
Discogs seems Strange lately in Some Ways. Adding something in their Discography is now also Fucking Complicated with their Wished about every little Information.

which is also why it is incredibly useful.  I've had the same problems and frustrations with entering new titles and editing information as anyone else, but I've come to appreciate that consistency and nitpicking.  I think of how much more useful sites like Encyclopaedia Metallum could be if it was more detailed and strict with formatting and information.  I almost never walk away from Discogs needing to go anywhere else when looking for information, and that is a great convenience.

How many artists and labels will want to be on the banned list and go out of their way to get there?  If it is all about smoke and mirrors, you can't ignore that possibility.  Some people will consider being banned as an achievement and wear it like a badge of honor.  Or another way to be associated with an outlander group.  "We were banned too.  Join the club."  There are many possibilities besides being victimized by a business or a business of do-gooders.

Quote from: bitewerksMTB on September 01, 2013, 03:36:55 AM
"those who favor safety over liberty deserve neither safety nor liberty". that quote is one of the reasons I became a libertarian. also one of the reasons I'll never set foot in Europe, unless its Russia.

Is Russia a bastion of liberty & freedom?

You'll be fine in Europe.  You wouldn't  have to worry about paying their taxes or all the regulations unless you intend on living there or setting up a business.

I have never heard of Tank Genocide, The Art of Eugenics, or Karma Yoga 88 (sounds made up on the spot)..
[/quote]

to me it is, compared to what the states have become.

Quote from: bitewerksMTB on September 01, 2013, 03:36:55 AM
I have never heard of Tank Genocide, The Art of Eugenics, or Karma Yoga 88 (sounds made up on the spot)..

Tank Genocide is a bedroom black metal band from France who seems to just improvise releases and has put out more demos then anyone I have ever seen in such a time span most of if not all have covers themed after Nazisplotation films. Obviously maybe one or two songs from those tapes should have ever been released. I highly doubt the person behind the band is intelligent enough to have a political stance.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Tank_Genocide/3540347270

Karma Yoga 88 was a ambient/folk project that made Indo-Aryan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_peoples) music or music about the Arya/Aryan Kirya. That band however was fake and the guy behind it decided to take advantage of my kind & trusting nature to steal a bunch of money and items from this label.

The Art of Eugenics is the name of this split (click the this sentence for a link). (http://www.discogs.com/Aryan-Assault-Vinland-SS-Todesengel-Karma-Yoga-88-The-Art-Of-Eugenics-White-Noise-And-American-Antis/release/3264964) Not an actual band.

He also lists my music twice the "Vinland Special Services" & "Vinland SS" which are the same band. Someone on facebook told me that Death in June is actually Jewish. The Nuclear War Now! forum he is referencing is a public forum (the label is run by an Asain guy) where I promote my label/music (despite a vast majority of it not being political in Nature) along with NS black metal labels such as Frenteruopa & Darker Then Black. 

Considering that he took most of it down as someone stated I suspect he made this all up in a caffeine rush. I still wouldn't mind finding more information about the guy to scare the pants off him though. Anti Fascist internet warriors are the new trend I guess.

QuoteAnti Fascist internet warriors are the new trend I guess.

Very Old Trend, but now Worldwide. Seems more in Europe before. They have fucked up a lot in Germany, Swiss, Austria, England and so forth. Canceling Shows, Boycott Selling and also Demos agains some Stores (like in Bremen some Years ago, was Quiet funny, since one of the Shops in this Building was run by an old Gruftis gegen Rechts Member) ect ect.
They have even made 2 Books about Subgenre :

Ästhetische_Mobilmachung - Book about Gothic/Industrial/Noise ect.
Part of it as Pdf from a Leftwinged official Site:
http://www.linksjugend-lsa.de/uploads/media/Aesthetische_Mobilmachung_Death_in_June.pdf

Unheilige Allianzen - Book about Black Metal and NSBM
Image of it as Pdf from a Leftwinged official Site:
http://old.asta-bochum.de/IMG/pdf/Black_Metal.pdf


Both books are used in Lessons on Schools and in some Blabla Platforms, since they are really famous and Old, nothing changed after Releasing them at all.

Quote from: Vega360 on September 01, 2013, 01:32:47 PM
Tank Genocide is a bedroom black metal band from France who seems to just improvise releases and has put out more demos then anyone I have ever seen in such a time span most of if not all have covers themed after Nazisplotation films. Obviously maybe one or two songs from those tapes should have ever been released. I highly doubt the person behind the band is intelligent enough to have a political stance.

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Tank_Genocide/3540347270

That list includes songtitles that will amuse for some time, thanks for the link. "Jesus Is a Fucking Jewish" seems a winner but the bathos of "Keep France White (Bonus Track)" comes close. Just recently he's moved onto "Suicide Is My Last Refuge" from Your Life Is Crap.

Quote from: Goat93 on September 01, 2013, 02:50:22 PM

QuoteAnti Fascist internet warriors are the new trend I guess.

Very Old Trend, but now Worldwide. Seems more in Europe before. They have fucked up a lot in Germany, Swiss, Austria, England and so forth. Canceling Shows, Boycott Selling and also Demos agains some Stores (like in Bremen some Years ago, was Quiet funny, since one of the Shops in this Building was run by an old Gruftis gegen Rechts Member) ect ect.
They have even made 2 Books about Subgenre :

Ästhetische_Mobilmachung - Book about Gothic/Industrial/Noise ect.
Part of it as Pdf from a Leftwinged official Site:
http://www.linksjugend-lsa.de/uploads/media/Aesthetische_Mobilmachung_Death_in_June.pdf

Unheilige Allianzen - Book about Black Metal and NSBM
Image of it as Pdf from a Leftwinged official Site:
http://old.asta-bochum.de/IMG/pdf/Black_Metal.pdf


Both books are used in Lessons on Schools and in some Blabla Platforms, since they are really famous and Old, nothing changed after Releasing them at all.

I didn't know hold it was, I'm only 23 and was a Toddler during all the early nineties heyday of all this stuff. Black Metal concerts etc. all getting shut down and whatever else. Distributors getting raided by AFA, Couple years ago a Kroda concert was shut down by armed cops etc. In America there isn't blanket censorship under law about this kind of stuff, basically it's up to the individual business to decide if they want to sell that stuff (which obviously most don't) but there isn't much I think in terms of regulation by law. I'll meet bands that are run by people who are serious activists other are just kids looking to channel their aggression into art.

@ HongKongGoolagong

If you or anyone else actually feel inclined to buy Tank Genocide material or any of the other bands the list mentioned that I had to explain please check my distro list.

http://www.wintersolaceproductions.com/

Quote from: bitewerksMTB on August 25, 2013, 12:03:36 AM
One comment on the thread that Discogs sent me a link to, someone notes that the U.S. lacks hate speech laws- do most people in Europe support such laws? Mildly off-topic but I figured I'd ask.

Prosecutions under hate speech laws in Europe are quite rare and selectively applied - it tends to be done in the UK when public order is supposedly put at risk by some Muslim kid gobbing off on facebook or twitter promoting the murder of off-duty soldiers. These laws I would say are generally supported by the tabloid-reading masses although personally I don't think free speech can be called free speech unless it includes the right to be an idiot - that goes for fundamentalist extremists, racist and fascist musicians and these anti-fascist activists who get it comically wrong.

Germany is different from elsewhere with its stricter laws about the display of swastikas and so on, and a strange and probably unwanted byproduct of these laws has been a widespread ignorance and taboo about their own history. It's amazing how many native Germans have never visited a KZ even when one may be near their home town.

Russia sounds really fucked up for its lack of free speech due to the big religious/moralistic cultural influence.

Quote from: Peterson on September 01, 2013, 07:49:22 AM

Quote from: jesusfaggotchrist link=topic=3783.msg32659#msg32659
to me it is, compared to what the states have become.

Are you being serious or just trolling?

Take it however you want

Just noticed that Gnawed / RxAxPxE split also cannot be sold on discogs. These nazis are everywhere now..

Quote from: Levas on September 23, 2014, 09:57:55 PM
Just noticed that Gnawed / RxAxPxE split also cannot be sold on discogs. These nazis are everywhere now..

Yes, RxAxPxE was added to their secret list of banned artists some time back.

It's funny, you can buy and sell as many Skrewdriver records as you want on Discogs, but no XE, Nicole 12, Clandestine Blaze or RxAxPxE.

anyone looking to sell GNAWED / RXAXPXE split for reasonable price email collapsedhole@yahoo.com ...on a real Gnawed kick lately...

Quote from: Brad on September 24, 2014, 01:17:08 AM

Quote from: yosef666 on September 23, 2014, 11:32:21 PM
Yes, RxAxPxE was added to their secret list of banned artists some time back.

Why?

With a name like RAPE and album titles like "Anti-Female Orchestara", are you seriously asking? And isn't RxAxPxE a side project of some heavy metallers anyway? So they are probably going to get a lot more attention like this than your regular PE band no one knows about.

Yeah, lately the project was far more into occult themes than anything ordinary like misoginy. Didn't quite understood the NEHPF comment. If you are coming with metallers, you can go full scale entrails ripped from a virgin's cunt, and if you are not in metal, then somehow antifemale orchestra is worth banning from everywhere

The RAPE guy turned up at UFoI and was very well behaved and polite as is usually the case with the scummier side of the genre. No airs or graces, no fucking attitude. No art shit pretentiousness. I liked him.

There are 2 split 7"s. Any idea where I can get them?

Quote from: Levas on September 24, 2014, 09:29:25 AM
Yeah, lately the project was far more into occult themes than anything ordinary like misoginy. Didn't quite understood the NEHPF comment. If you are coming with metallers, you can go full scale entrails ripped from a virgin's cunt, and if you are not in metal, then somehow antifemale orchestra is worth banning from everywhere

I just mean that you don't really get to choose which side of your project people are going to notice. Even when they are doing more of occult and satanic themes the misogyny is still there as a cherry to pick. And while in metal you can say a lot of violent and disturbing stuff, people tend to view it as artistic expression of random anger or what ever and PE is almost always going to be taken more seriously. I just find it pretty obvious that bands with perhaps not more wider, but more heterogenous audience through their metal bands are going to get some bad publicity a lot easier. Also right now anti-feminism, misogyny etc is something A LOT people really don't want to be associated with.

Yeah, live by the sword, die by the sword. People don't get to be deliberately offensive but then get offended that people are offended, sorry guys. If not being able to sell racist/misogynist-themed work on some record collector nerd website is the worst fallout that's happening then these artists should probably count themselves lucky anyway. :D

Quote from: NEHPF on September 24, 2014, 05:32:11 PM
And while in metal you can say a lot of violent and disturbing stuff, people tend to view it as artistic expression of random anger or what ever and PE is almost always going to be taken more seriously.

Actualy i don't think so. There are enought banning and cencoring Try Outs in Metal Genre, but since most People are common with it, its no "Big Deal" anymore. And there are more Metal Concerts/Releases, so if a P:E Porject is banned, it will be much more Recogniced than one of 6 million Metal Bands.

Quote from: NEHPF on September 24, 2014, 05:32:11 PM
Also right now anti-feminism, misogyny etc is something A LOT people really don't want to be associated with.

This is worth a topic of it's own, but briefly, yes and no - it's more that these issues are being very hotly debated, and debased, right now.

Quote from: yosef666 on September 23, 2014, 11:32:21 PM

Quote from: Levas on September 23, 2014, 09:57:55 PM
Just noticed that Gnawed / RxAxPxE split also cannot be sold on discogs. These nazis are everywhere now..

Yes, RxAxPxE was added to their secret list of banned artists some time back.

It's funny, you can buy and sell as many Skrewdriver records as you want on Discogs, but no XE, Nicole 12, Clandestine Blaze or RxAxPxE.

A larger amount of people will buy Skrewdriver (as there albums despite their content contain more re-listen value due to their genre being basically just plain rock music) discs/lps at higher prices then noise music or black metal bands that aren't as well known and thus it is more money for discogs.

Actually this is new for me that RAPE records arent allowed to be sold at discogs and I for sure dont want to explain myself.
There are definitely no metal-roots for RAPE.

As for availability: You can get stuff directly from us of course as long as available.

Are people seriously surprised they can't sell this type of stuff on a mainstream website..?

It's not being surprised about that, but sheer lack of logic. While bands like R.A.P.E. offer nothing more explicit than entire genres of music like goregrind/power electronics. Then picking random bands to be banned seems odd. You know, why THAT band, and if that band, who's next? Carcass? Whitehouse? etc..

I feel for most of underground music out there, could be good to return back to it's own "market". Forums, mailinglists, label websites etc. Not promote at one centralized place.

Carcass and Whitehouse are established and respected. Any newish band coming along calling itself RAPE is, of course, going to get more heat if and when it becomes noticed. It's not necessarily deliberately asking for trouble, but with a mainstream site like Discogs, there's always going to be the knockers.

"Pontix" has already stated he doesn't really give much of a shit (if I read his post right). Once his material is sold out, and there are those that still want it, there's not a lot of options. But a project like RAPE isn't going to want to be known outside of this immediate genre, so just look at the classified ads section here and if no joy, I don't know...get in touch with mates...just go without. What the fuck ever. We can't have everything.

Just don't worry about Discogs doing what it does to tiny little projects that have little actual meaning outside of their own scenes. If you're already in, you'll have other options.

It would be good to return to selling/promoting via local resources, but I doubt it's possible in the current time.
Also just a few thoughts. Is it the fact that if things are highly hyperbolized, then it gets "artistic", and it is not artistic if it's just observing sort of "natural happenings"? Like "I will rape you" compared to "I will drown my massive cock into your red bloody vulva until your eyes explode and you will thank me later, stupid bitch". Is this difference? Distorting reality? And reflecting reality is not art and becomes offensive? I am talking about music here now. movies for example have their ratings - R, N-16 etc. so maybe if you start rating your music "this is about not liking women. If you are under 35 and from Western Europe, there is a big chance you will be offended and won't get the idea". Also that thing about established acts. It seems that these big names are all highly artistic, sarcastic and you are stupid if you are offended by their stuff and those youngsters are doing their nonsense hating everything and being misogynist etc. Also I am curious what people are offended by mostly lately. Killings are everyday stuff, torture is fantasy, wars are already boring, religion is lower han sea level and everybody mocks it. So I'd say racism, equal rights, gays? oh and you shouldn't say bad things about jews too I guess? Albanians, Serbs etc. are ok, they didn't suffer that much. So these are my thoughts on the way to Tower Transmission.

Probably time for Fearless Leader to start a new thread with this, but anyway -

Quote from: Levas on September 25, 2014, 05:23:23 PM
It would be good to return to selling/promoting via local resources, but I doubt it's possible in the current time.

Why? The networks already exist. It would be nothing for people to set up their own forums, lists, etc.

Quote from: Levas on September 25, 2014, 05:23:23 PMIs it the fact that if things are highly hyperbolized, then it gets "artistic", and it is not artistic if it's just observing sort of "natural happenings"?

Gods, I hope so. I would dearly love a clear division between "art" and everything else.

Quote from: Levas on September 25, 2014, 05:23:23 PMIt seems that these big names are all highly artistic, sarcastic and you are stupid if you are offended by their stuff and those youngsters are doing their nonsense hating everything and being misogynist etc.

The law of the jungle, then. The older are more venerated, the younger have to prove themselves. Hardly anything new. 

Quote from: Levas on September 25, 2014, 05:23:23 PMAlso I am curious what people are offended by mostly lately. Killings are everyday stuff, torture is fantasy, wars are already boring, religion is lower han sea level and everybody mocks it. So I'd say racism, equal rights, gays? oh and you shouldn't say bad things about jews too I guess? Albanians, Serbs etc. are ok, they didn't suffer that much. So these are my thoughts on the way to Tower Transmission.

Animals. People love animals. Everyone looses their shit if animals are abused by humans.

Quote from: Andrew McIntosh on September 25, 2014, 12:45:26 PM
Carcass and Whitehouse are established and respected. Any newish band coming along calling itself RAPE is, of course, going to get more heat if and when it becomes noticed. I

Interesting Point. Whitehouse is So respected that William Benett wrote extra a Statement that he is not racist, Sexist Bla Bla bla some Time ago. After more than 20 Years of Whitehouse pops up a Niceley "Oh we're just Arty farty" Statement and all went well.

If any of these band would make Statements like that, they wouldn't have these Problems at all. Its the Logic of most Hypocrisy People here.

Quote from: Brad on September 24, 2014, 01:17:08 AM

Quote from: yosef666 on September 23, 2014, 11:32:21 PM
Yes, RxAxPxE was added to their secret list of banned artists some time back.

Why?

This is the generic answer I've received after several inquiries regarding different artists banned from sale at Discogs. They refuse to eve give any more information:

"I apologize for the concern. Items that are blocked from sale can be blocked either due to a legal copyright request or at our discretion. Thank you for your understanding."

Quote from: Vega360 on September 25, 2014, 05:31:38 AM

Quote from: yosef666 on September 23, 2014, 11:32:21 PM

Quote from: Levas on September 23, 2014, 09:57:55 PM
Just noticed that Gnawed / RxAxPxE split also cannot be sold on discogs. These nazis are everywhere now..

Yes, RxAxPxE was added to their secret list of banned artists some time back.

It's funny, you can buy and sell as many Skrewdriver records as you want on Discogs, but no XE, Nicole 12, Clandestine Blaze or RxAxPxE.

A larger amount of people will buy Skrewdriver (as there albums despite their content contain more re-listen value due to their genre being basically just plain rock music) discs/lps at higher prices then noise music or black metal bands that aren't as well known and thus it is more money for discogs.

That does seem to be the case... it's only smaller bands getting banned from sale.