NOISE RELATED RANDOM TALK TOPIC

[FreakAnimalFinland]

This world is based on creation, if we depress those natural creative gifts, we become depressed.

There is endless amount of studies about benefits of things like walk in the nature. Usually, when someone is moaning about their depressions and dysphorias and whatever, and insisting merely more medication, it is weird situation, that the pill, is the medication. While you could say that simply following prescription of going outdoors, doing something meaningful, could solve a lot of things. Of course not all and not everything, but a lot of it. Especially now in west, when you can easily see studies showing the social media addiction results and media addiction results anyways. Amount of screen time and so on. Of course, there is different qualities of "screen time". Nevertheless...

Not that I somehow would look down on doing noise on computer, most of gear we tend to use, are computers of some sort these days. Even recorders. I mean more about sitting in front of screen vs. doing noise in other ways. One of the traditional qualities of counter culture has been to challenge automations where life gets you, and consciously make new decisions. Evaluate things. Lets say, if one would sit in the office, in front of screen all day, return home, and is it more screen time he needs? Is it just the routine that you may end up fooling with digital synthesizers just for fun. Which it can be! But to escape the autopilot life, it could be time of conscious decisions. Alertness to see and hear or dream where and how the noise happens. Meaning for example expanding the horizon away from the industry.

I was just talking with friend week ago, and conclusion of one disappointment was noise as "gear" you buy, that is manufactured by instrument companies, for creation of "experimental sound". For example. As opposed to noise as meaningful and challenging experience. Something that takes you into the world so to say. Not just thinking gadgets you bought are the core of noise(-making).

As simple things as gathering of sounds, locations, situations, etc. May be a lot of work, a lot of "wasted" time, but also, can result actual discoveries. When noise is something else than sort of micro version of basic society, I feel it has way more meaningful qualities.

Talking with other friend, who had trouble watching new WCN episode (Public Front one), he was critical of how come any "alternative" these days, turns out to be merch vendor? It may be small scale, it may be underground in some ways, but still, in the end, everywhere where you look, the mechanics you find behind all is flooding merch to finance things. While noise, of course, exists also in form of manufacturing and selling items, I think one should not forget it may not be its purpose or reason. Noise making without intent of "putting out product" or that it is not priority. Priority could be for example the inspiring changes this process of doing can awake in creator. If it doesn't, I am leaning a bit into direction that one may not be involved in ways it would go beyond "pushing buttons".


Well, as topic says "random talk", haha..

[Moran]

This standardization of the process of making music and turning it into a product is part of the establishment bringing underground music into its means of extending influence. Same thing happened with "extreme" metal, which now frequently simulates past music that resulted from genuine interest, but with messaging that's ubiquitous in mainstream media, encouraging product fetishism, mystification and worship of artists, promoting a sense of lack of agency, etc.

Besides, the routine process of releasing some generic music product, farting out merchandise, promoting it on social media through its algorithms, shipping it to some guy who will do a cursory listen to rate it on a website according to his preconceived standards unrelated to the music, is incongruous with much of noise that makes clear that experience is always changing.

[PSYWARRIOR84]

This world is based on creation, if we depress those natural creative gifts, we become depressed.

There is endless amount of studies about benefits of things like walk in the nature. Usually, when someone is moaning about their depressions and dysphorias and whatever, and insisting merely more medication, it is weird situation, that the pill, is the medication. While you could say that simply following prescription of going outdoors, doing something meaningful, could solve a lot of things. Of course not all and not everything, but a lot of it. Especially now in west, when you can easily see studies showing the social media addiction results and media addiction results anyways. Amount of screen time and so on. Of course, there is different qualities of "screen time". Nevertheless...

Not that I somehow would look down on doing noise on computer, most of gear we tend to use, are computers of some sort these days. Even recorders. I mean more about sitting in front of screen vs. doing noise in other ways. One of the traditional qualities of counter culture has been to challenge automations where life gets you, and consciously make new decisions. Evaluate things. Lets say, if one would sit in the office, in front of screen all day, return home, and is it more screen time he needs? Is it just the routine that you may end up fooling with digital synthesizers just for fun. Which it can be! But to escape the autopilot life, it could be time of conscious decisions. Alertness to see and hear or dream where and how the noise happens. Meaning for example expanding the horizon away from the industry.

I was just talking with friend week ago, and conclusion of one disappointment was noise as "gear" you buy, that is manufactured by instrument companies, for creation of "experimental sound". For example. As opposed to noise as meaningful and challenging experience. Something that takes you into the world so to say. Not just thinking gadgets you bought are the core of noise(-making).

As simple things as gathering of sounds, locations, situations, etc. May be a lot of work, a lot of "wasted" time, but also, can result actual discoveries. When noise is something else than sort of micro version of basic society, I feel it has way more meaningful qualities.

Talking with other friend, who had trouble watching new WCN episode (Public Front one), he was critical of how come any "alternative" these days, turns out to be merch vendor? It may be small scale, it may be underground in some ways, but still, in the end, everywhere where you look, the mechanics you find behind all is flooding merch to finance things. While noise, of course, exists also in form of manufacturing and selling items, I think one should not forget it may not be its purpose or reason. Noise making without intent of "putting out product" or that it is not priority. Priority could be for example the inspiring changes this process of doing can awake in creator. If it doesn't, I am leaning a bit into direction that one may not be involved in ways it would go beyond "pushing buttons".


Well, as topic says "random talk", haha..

Yes, depression is nothing more than bottled up energy that becomes toxic. I also think excitement is not healthy either because it doesn't exist in nature. Both are inevitable sitting in a sedentary soup of Wi-Fi/radio waves staring at flickering blue light. However, big pharma makes billions on lazy ignorant fools, it's part of their business model. 

Yes, I also agree with you on this. I am lucky enough to work out in nature so I don't feel chained to a computer when using one to master music but I'd rather record amplified synthesis with a series of mics connected to my Tascam portastudio, which I will do next month. I suffered from a herniated disk for much of this year, so a simple plug and play configuration was my limitation and I recorded many things like that, it was a great escape from the crippling pain. When you feel like you are dying inside, the last thing on my mind is to daisy chain pedals and make an elaborate circuit of unconventional noise making devices. I hear many people involved in the noise scene say the same thing, they don't care about gear, but some how it all ends up sounding similar if not the same even though they are thinking outside the box.It is a great time for synthesizers, one of the only things I splurge on and most were not manufactured with noise/power electronics for intended use.

If one is involved in noise to make money, they are an idiot. My motive has been to spread a message and I have spent more money on gear, shipping promos, etc. than I have ever made from donations; which I expected. However, I don't expect to change the power structure, a few thousand ruling billions through Psychological Warfare, but I continue to march. Much like the Raven, my purpose in life is simply to survive and make noises, money is just an illusion. I enjoyed that particular episode because the guy was genuine, he remained his position as an outsider looking in, or more like an insider looking out at the outsiders. WCN has a great show and my only gripe is that I am usually disappointed that most people involved in the noise world appear to be merely normie nerds. The difference between the bricks in the wall that work nine to five that cheer on their favorite sports team in their free time and normie noise nerd is only superficial. The first artist to impact me in my youth was GG Allin and I am looking for that kind of danger but it doesn't seem to exist these days.

[Commander15]

This world is based on creation, if we depress those natural creative gifts, we become depressed.

There is endless amount of studies about benefits of things like walk in the nature. Usually, when someone is moaning about their depressions and dysphorias and whatever, and insisting merely more medication, it is weird situation, that the pill, is the medication. While you could say that simply following prescription of going outdoors, doing something meaningful, could solve a lot of things. Of course not all and not everything, but a lot of it. Especially now in west, when you can easily see studies showing the social media addiction results and media addiction results anyways. Amount of screen time and so on. Of course, there is different qualities of "screen time". Nevertheless...

Humans in general are holistic animals that are designed to move, do concrete things with their hands and body etc. So that in mind i'd say that the mind and the body really do walk hand in hand meaning that if the ones mind isn't cultivated or activated it will  have an negative effect on ones physical condition and vice versa. As above, so below!

So it really isn't suprising that doing the things that are characteristic for human beings, in this case moving, doing concrete stuff  exercising and connecting with the nature, really do benefit people with i.e. depression. Most of the time when i'm mentally stuck with some issues or with noise related stuff, going for a walk or running usually ignite the thought processes that lead to the new solutions, revelations and new views on things.

Not that I somehow would look down on doing noise on computer, most of gear we tend to use, are computers of some sort these days. Even recorders. I mean more about sitting in front of screen vs. doing noise in other ways. One of the traditional qualities of counter culture has been to challenge automations where life gets you, and consciously make new decisions. Evaluate things. Lets say, if one would sit in the office, in front of screen all day, return home, and is it more screen time he needs? Is it just the routine that you may end up fooling with digital synthesizers just for fun. Which it can be! But to escape the autopilot life, it could be time of conscious decisions. Alertness to see and hear or dream where and how the noise happens. Meaning for example expanding the horizon away from the industry.

I was just talking with friend week ago, and conclusion of one disappointment was noise as "gear" you buy, that is manufactured by instrument companies, for creation of "experimental sound". For example. As opposed to noise as meaningful and challenging experience. Something that takes you into the world so to say. Not just thinking gadgets you bought are the core of noise(-making).

Ah, the dreaded gear! I view the gear merely as tools in the context of noise, albeit interesting in their own right. But without ones own vision, skills and the spirit they quickly reveal themselves to be just what they ultimately are: bunch of resistors, IC's and transistors in a box. The gear needs to be animated by the intention and the spirit of their operator. I will make an bold assumption that about 95% of noisemaking happens within the head of an artist and the last 5% are about the gear, the act of operating the gear and post-production. Whether i'm correct with this assumption or not, it still resonates with your concept of noise as an challenge, re-evaluation and concious decision making that really are at the very heart of noise and counter-cultures in general. Taking your life into your own hands despite the mainstream values, odds and paradigms.

As simple things as gathering of sounds, locations, situations, etc. May be a lot of work, a lot of "wasted" time, but also, can result actual discoveries. When noise is something else than sort of micro version of basic society, I feel it has way more meaningful qualities.

Talking with other friend, who had trouble watching new WCN episode (Public Front one), he was critical of how come any "alternative" these days, turns out to be merch vendor? It may be small scale, it may be underground in some ways, but still, in the end, everywhere where you look, the mechanics you find behind all is flooding merch to finance things. While noise, of course, exists also in form of manufacturing and selling items, I think one should not forget it may not be its purpose or reason. Noise making without intent of "putting out product" or that it is not priority. Priority could be for example the inspiring changes this process of doing can awake in creator. If it doesn't, I am leaning a bit into direction that one may not be involved in ways it would go beyond "pushing buttons".


Well, as topic says "random talk", haha..

I tend to view the "wasted" time as an sacrifice and somewhat resembling the magickal work. To recieve something you must do the work and offer something personal and meaningful to the gods. And the most valuable asset for modern men is the time. I think that the idea of noise as an mere micro version of basic society is simply repulsive hah! It really cheapens it to the purely material and social level, where the motives of doing things are simply connected to the social interaction, petty micro hierarchies and selfish hunger for validation.

This world is based on creation, if we depress those natural creative gifts, we become depressed.

There is endless amount of studies about benefits of things like walk in the nature. Usually, when someone is moaning about their depressions and dysphorias and whatever, and insisting merely more medication, it is weird situation, that the pill, is the medication. While you could say that simply following prescription of going outdoors, doing something meaningful, could solve a lot of things. Of course not all and not everything, but a lot of it. Especially now in west, when you can easily see studies showing the social media addiction results and media addiction results anyways. Amount of screen time and so on. Of course, there is different qualities of "screen time". Nevertheless...

Not that I somehow would look down on doing noise on computer, most of gear we tend to use, are computers of some sort these days. Even recorders. I mean more about sitting in front of screen vs. doing noise in other ways. One of the traditional qualities of counter culture has been to challenge automations where life gets you, and consciously make new decisions. Evaluate things. Lets say, if one would sit in the office, in front of screen all day, return home, and is it more screen time he needs? Is it just the routine that you may end up fooling with digital synthesizers just for fun. Which it can be! But to escape the autopilot life, it could be time of conscious decisions. Alertness to see and hear or dream where and how the noise happens. Meaning for example expanding the horizon away from the industry.

I was just talking with friend week ago, and conclusion of one disappointment was noise as "gear" you buy, that is manufactured by instrument companies, for creation of "experimental sound". For example. As opposed to noise as meaningful and challenging experience. Something that takes you into the world so to say. Not just thinking gadgets you bought are the core of noise(-making).

As simple things as gathering of sounds, locations, situations, etc. May be a lot of work, a lot of "wasted" time, but also, can result actual discoveries. When noise is something else than sort of micro version of basic society, I feel it has way more meaningful qualities.

Talking with other friend, who had trouble watching new WCN episode (Public Front one), he was critical of how come any "alternative" these days, turns out to be merch vendor? It may be small scale, it may be underground in some ways, but still, in the end, everywhere where you look, the mechanics you find behind all is flooding merch to finance things. While noise, of course, exists also in form of manufacturing and selling items, I think one should not forget it may not be its purpose or reason. Noise making without intent of "putting out product" or that it is not priority. Priority could be for example the inspiring changes this process of doing can awake in creator. If it doesn't, I am leaning a bit into direction that one may not be involved in ways it would go beyond "pushing buttons".


Well, as topic says "random talk", haha..

If one is involved in noise to make money, they are an idiot. My motive has been to spread a message and I have spent more money on gear, shipping promos, etc. than I have ever made from donations; which I expected. However, I don't expect to change the power structure, a few thousand ruling billions through Psychological Warfare, but I continue to march. Much like the Raven, my purpose in life is simply to survive and make noises, money is just an illusion. I enjoyed that particular episode because the guy was genuine, he remained his position as an outsider looking in, or more like an insider looking out at the outsiders. WCN has a great show and my only gripe is that I am usually disappointed that most people involved in the noise world appear to be merely normie nerds. The difference between the bricks in the wall that work nine to five that cheer on their favorite sports team in their free time and normie noise nerd is only superficial. The first artist to impact me in my youth was GG Allin and I am looking for that kind of danger but it doesn't seem to exist these days.

I think that the emphasis should be placed on the word "appear" as the hour and plus of regulated and curated noise talk on a mainstream platform is hardly enough to make a blanket statement of that most of the people involved in noise are "normie nerds". When you scratch the surface bit more you start to find all kinds of interesting obsessions, worldviews and thoughts that are almost impossible to explore via podcast that is housed on a platform that is generally unfriendly for the industrial culture. That said, mere banal antisocial behaviour and antagonism without the substance is just as uninteresting as being "normie".

[PSYWARRIOR84]

Thanks for emphasizing my words, for your own benefit and mine. It was just a thought in the moment, just an oscillation of noise; nothing malign. I also see myself as no different than a normie nerd despite my obsessions and world view. If only I had a true counterculture lifestyle of having a diy in an abandoned building, or drifting around performing confrontational onslaughts of destructive noise, I could truly stand apart from touchdown Tony and the gang. I'm in no mood for random noise talk but felt the need to provide an obvious explanation. Go team noise!

[John Cagefight]

my only gripe is that I am usually disappointed that most people involved in the noise world appear to be merely normie nerds. The difference between the bricks in the wall that work nine to five that cheer on their favorite sports team in their free time and normie noise nerd is only superficial. The first artist to impact me in my youth was GG Allin and I am looking for that kind of danger but it doesn't seem to exist these days.

Surely there must be some examples of 21st century noise makers who flirted with the types of theatrics you're referencing? But why such a focus on the "normie" all the time? Identity fascinations seem so, "first-layer"? (For want for a better word?) The signification you're getting at, this lifestyle fetishism, seems much better suited to rock music, right? A genre where there's so little freedom starts needing more and more ambitious packaging. Noise and industrial, however, strike me as free enough where the word "normie" is a pretty bleak critique, missing the mark maybe? How do you think Les Joyaux De La Princesse should dress during his day to day? Does it matter what Blod does to pay the rent?

[PSYWARRIOR84]

21st century? From the year 2000 onwards, Bizarre Uproar comes to mind and the guy who was pointing a gun at the crow during a performance. I'd like to discover more lunatics and psychopaths in the noise world, they must exist in such a formless and free genre. Acts like Hanatarash and G.I.S.M. seem to be extinct, and were more prevalent in the 80s.I haven't been focused on the "normie" all the time, that is your observational bias, look at my posts. "Lifestyle fetishism" sounds very clunky and cringe, I was just getting at how I was disappointed to discover that many people involved in extreme music don't seem very extreme anymore. There is nothing wrong with that,my lifestyle is mundane/regimented, but the full blown maniacs are much more interesting.

think LJDLP should wear a princess gown during his day to day. It doesn't matter to me what Blod does to pay rent, the artist should be separate from the day to day routine, it's not interesting. Hopefully that clears up this hideous train wreck the "n" word created and we can move on.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I don't think there is shortage of such people, more like most people no longer use it as "promotional stunt" so to say. Many of the old stories can be pretty mild. Like thinking how some cider drinking crusts or Darkthrone fenriz drinking 6-pack at the Helvete were wild stories. hah.. Or acts of vandalism. Or how something like Mike Diana taken into court for drawing comics, UK industrial acts grave robbing investigations, Sotos or whatever these things. Its like underground culture dark folklore, but same sort of things happen pretty regularly, but just are no longer on spotlight.

One thing is that many things are no longer cool. Going on GG type route and assault some random female in crowd and that about that for possibilities to play live anywhere anymore, and most would consider it really weak in the first place.

Nevertheless, I would say there is entire "untold stories of underground" these days and those who say there is shortage of chaos, weird and extreme, might not be part of that underground where not everything is shared in internet, especially not in way that appears to be attempt to impress people.

I could still suspect, that separating artist art and personal life not always necessary. Or lets say, we don't need to really know how LJDLP dresses, but knowing man has intellect and apparently also passion in pushing forward in other fields of life, this drive may correlate in artistic expression and what he is doing professionally? Just like for example Vivenza, LJDLP isn't just punching girl on face at live gig, but perhaps pushing some other passions further than are not really that common or "normal"?


This week in Finland, Max Eastman live shows in three cities! Not sure what exactly he would be playing, but we'll see!

[Kaaoskultti]

I've heard many people talk about the driving force to participate in music or art is ultimately to release emotions but I don't think that is really true although it may seem that way. This world is based on creation, if we depress those natural creative gifts, we become depressed. The emotions are the subconscious hunger pangs for creation; catharsis doesn't seem natural.

I'd like to hear what you came up with because I am looking for folks to work with. I've been pushing myself to create with more authenticity and originality lately. I like the idea of flaws and getting past trying to make "good" songs. Much of noise has no involvement with songs anyways, but that is refreshing because familiarity and homogeneity are trappings that stifle authentic creation. Which is why music seems dead and lifeless, whereas Noise seems like a young sapling in an empty forest.

Thank you for the feedback and interest, it means a lot to me. I kind of understand what you're saying. Catharsis as secondary to the Drive to creation, that is true. However, the mere pleasure from playing (un)music is enough to be 'cathartic', understood simply as a means of releasing that unconscious drive towards creation.
There was more music produced, but I ended up recording two. One of based loosely on Deathpile's "THIS IS MY WORLD. A WORLD INSIDE MY HEAD." line off You Will Never Know, and is called "My World (Your Death)". One of the best things in improvising is that I loose the lyrics after performing them due to the musical unintelligibility it gave to them, but lines such as "SAY IT.. SAY IT TO MY FACE" and "YOU HAVE YOUR WORLD, AND I HAVE MINE" can be listened to. Not totally serious, but in no way a mere joke. The other is called "Paz pra quem? (Pra Ninguém!)" and has portuguese lyrics. Now there's something special here: the pedal-radio interference. I was able to catch a radio dialougue concerning Brazil's political affairs and it ended up sounding like a PE-ish sample, heh.
Now there's something special about the first one in terms of handling the gear and using 'errors': the voice modulator that I have keeps on producing a sound while not being used vocally, and by that, being connected to the mix table on a level of sound which didn't permit its full sonic expression, it kept on making noises that resemble a metal-junk orchestra, as I was hitting something arythmically deliberately during the music; but it was nothing like that and was totally unpredicted.

[Moran]

I was just talking with friend week ago, and conclusion of one disappointment was noise as "gear" you buy, that is manufactured by instrument companies, for creation of "experimental sound". For example. As opposed to noise as meaningful and challenging experience. Something that takes you into the world so to say. Not just thinking gadgets you bought are the core of noise(-making).

I vaguely remember Incapacitants saying they don't obsess over specific pieces of equipment. They continue to sound like themselves while their equipment changes over the years. In my experience with making music—though I don't make harsh noise—when I have a clear idea about what I want to make, and can use broad enough ranges of equipment and environment, the result tends to be satisfying with enough time and effort regardless of specific products. Overreliance on particular tools tends to limit the music being made.

[Stipsi]

Just a random thing (noise random related seems the right topic for asking!).
When you record something and at the end of the process you think "this shit is weak" but people told you the opposite, and the reverse scenario (you record something and you think "fuck, this is really good" and other people think is weak), what is your reaction?
I find it very frustrating honestly!

[XXX]

Just a random thing (noise random related seems the right topic for asking!).
When you record something and at the end of the process you think "this shit is weak" but people told you the opposite, and the reverse scenario (you record something and you think "fuck, this is really good" and other people think is weak), what is your reaction?
I found it very frustrating honestly!

sit on it for 6 months or so. listen again with some distance. fresh ears so to speak

[HateSermon]

Just a random thing (noise random related seems the right topic for asking!).
When you record something and at the end of the process you think "this shit is weak" but people told you the opposite, and the reverse scenario (you record something and you think "fuck, this is really good" and other people think is weak), what is your reaction?
I found it very frustrating honestly!

sit on it for 6 months or so. listen again with some distance. fresh ears so to speak

Agreed. It's surprising how things "age". Sometimes for the better but not always. I've been taking my sweet time working on a new full length because of this.

[Balor/SS1535]

Just a random thing (noise random related seems the right topic for asking!).
When you record something and at the end of the process you think "this shit is weak" but people told you the opposite, and the reverse scenario (you record something and you think "fuck, this is really good" and other people think is weak), what is your reaction?
I found it very frustrating honestly!

sit on it for 6 months or so. listen again with some distance. fresh ears so to speak

This is my strategy too.  It gets especially fun when you have archives going back some years, and you forget how you even made some of it!

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Especially with long sessions of mixing or "mastering", it can be very common to just tweak sound notch to far. Every time you turn high's little louder, feel like now it rips more, or more bass and feels it gets heavier. Returning to session with fresh ears may be surprise that material appears to be thin as fuck or soft-bassy humming.

Even if someone would say it is great, you may know it was better before tweaking sound too far. Also, you can't really know what is the level of greatness you are lumped into. Greatest release or this week? Greatest release someone listened half way through? haha... If setting level that you need to be right there, on level of undisputed classic of this expression, just being "great" doesn't necessarily cut it. Goal may be no less than being immortal, not just great, hah...  I know some people have method of not listening other peoples noise, to get "influences" or subconsciously "copy" something, but I don't really get that idea. If you got clear reference recordings of your favorite recordings you worship, its good to pull them from shelves and compare a bit.

I do not mean that comparison would be about trying to be like it, but one could say that as much as people seemingly worship 80's and 90's sound, it is surprising how much "20??" sound" is being used. Tinny, digitally glitchy highs and flatness caused by volume war where you try to be as loud as the rest, while actually personal preference may be exactly opposite? Sometimes it can be healthy to remind oneself that despite a lot of people ruin their stuff, you don't have to. You can accept it sounds quieter, more lo-fi, unless listener cranks the volume up. This is one reason many of my own work, I prefer not to publish it online. It is meant for stereo system, consciously picked CD into player, adjusting volume to be what is needed. Not to be played within online streams, in middle of contemporary 0dB digital noise blasting.