Dealing with a deadbeat label

[catharticprocess]

Does anyone have suggestions on how to deal with a dead beat label, especially when the label and person who runs it has a lot of respect in the scene?  I actually don't understand it.  The guy seems nice enough, but he's ripped off a lot of people in the scene, yet still have much respect from people.  This guy asked me to be on a comp and never sent my artist's copies, asked me for trade items from my label and never sent the trade.  This was about 8 months ago.

Why don't these artists get blackballed, especially as a reputation amasses for repeated ripping off of people?  The solution I'm considering, since this artist is highly collectible is to bootleg his entire discography.

-Ben

[kettu]

if you dont give out the name then people dont know who to avoid.

just post the name, ill promise to say something nasty about him. lets all laugh at him for being a fuck up.

a hissyfit and not dealing with him in the future  would me my personal plan.

edit: lol I think I know who this is. ive only had one compsubmission email ignored so no skin of my back. but if somebody is a ripoff it needs to be made public. like the italian videoguy.

[Tommy Carlsson]

Who is the Italian video guy? What has he done, and is this supposed to be common knowledge?

Better to spell out who you're talking about, or else you risk having people believe you're talking about someone else, maybe even someone innocent (as if!)... Looking at the listing of Clew of Theseus comp appearances on discogs, I think I have a hunch who you're talking about, but what the hell do I know?

[catharticprocess]

Most people know who this guy is, most people know he's ripped off tons of people on trades and such.  When I mentioned it before, everyone made excuses for him.  I guess it's okay to be a deadbeat ripoff fuck when you're the hot shit at the time.  Fan boys don't like to hold their gods accountable.  If I said it was some unknown dude from Spain, everyone would bad mouth him and black ball him (remember AIPR?), but if it's someone everyone knows and likes it will be ignored.  What do you expect from a scene filled with nihilists?

-Ben

[Tommy Carlsson]

OK -- you wanted a suggestion on how to deal with it, and my suggestion is that you do it openly like this.

[alpharmania]

Smear campaigns and public hangings have always proved to be effective.
Just this week I received a package from Death to Mankind in Spain that I had been waiting for since april last year. I heard a lot of excuses and explanations but now it finally arrived together with plenty of extras to compensate the delays. Karma I guess... I can speak for my own part here when it comes to being uneffective / slow ass at times when it comes to sending out material. if this happen I always try to make up for it some way. For myself there has over the years been circumstances that affects and creates complications in both personal life (and with music related business). Last year I had one of my worst times ever with heavy economic problems / bankruptcy and psychotic woman. Not going public with details because of personal reasons but it forced me to choose between putting all work on ice, live on the street with my 3 year old son or hang from a rope. Obvious priority but it creates other problems in addition...
2010 looks brighter (so far). We moved into new studio with Alfarmania and it also serves as office / headquarters for all activity around. Got new job at an art gallery which allows me to work undisturbed during days with packagings and administrative side of music. Finally raised enough funds and established solid ground to get back on feet with my life and work... If someone has unfinished business with me I advice you to get in touch with PM or mail (alpharmania@gmail.com) to clear it out.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Italian guy is the one who makes the noise related sex clips.. what the name? Don't remember right now. But I think he posted some advert on Chondritic Sound/Troniks board and people made orders, and none got it. When he was confronted about not sending stuff he replied stuff is coming but he doesn't have time to dedicate for label & replying mail all the time since he has also real life...?

Most people tend to be vary on Breathing Problem, Styggelse, Chondritic Sound, and so on. And I guess Cathartic Processes question is related to Styggelse, isn't it? It was already addressed as a problem on before mentioned Chondritic/Troniks forum last year. And we can see Kristian above offering to solve cases that need to be closed. So I think instead of online riddles, just e-mail to eachother and get it done.

I think publishing the names is ok. As long as it looks like every measure has been taken to actually do it. It is no excuse that label might be lazy or unorganized and infact forgotten to deal with several guys. But we all know that computers crash. Hard drives get wiped out. Life get confusing. And so on. In situation where yet another friendly direct reminder would do the thing, soiling the label name might not be necessay.

[catharticprocess]

So I think instead of online riddles, just e-mail to eachother and get it done.

Countless emails were exchanged over many months.

I've been through a divorce, psycho ex-wife, psycho ex-girlfriends, foreclosure on my house, roommate sticking me with 4 months rent while unemployed, laid off 3 times in 2 years, a year of unemployment, my fiancee getting laid off and unemployed for a year, doing contract work and not getting paid, sinking a couple grand into infrastructure into a shop that had to be closed in under a year, etc. etc. etc.  This is all in the past 5 years.  I know that life gets in the way sometimes.  I couldn't imagine how hard it is with a kid involved.

But, hey, who cares.  Might makes right.  No future.  Fuck the world.  I guess in the politics of this piece of shit scene, the labels and people who fuck people over are the ones who we should respect the most. 

-Ben

[kettu]

Who is the Italian video guy? What has he done, and is this supposed to be common knowledge?

I also had the check the name, it was so long ago that ive forgot the rectums name. IMdP

I dont know if its common knowledge or what kind of a guy he is. but im out 30 euros or whatever it was.
http://chondriticsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=24138&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

[rottingmouth]

Why don't these artists get blackballed, especially as a reputation amasses for repeated ripping off of people?

this artist is highly collectible

[FreakAnimalFinland]

So I think instead of online riddles, just e-mail to eachother and get it done.

Countless emails were exchanged over many months.

So I guess then dropping name is the move to do, and not vaguely talk about "scandinavians" or "some label" what will put many others into doubt and not the case what is meant.

Not just about this, but in general, about the deadbeat labels:
I think, some things are pretty common knowledge in the "scene". At least the active members who've been around. It might feel like one feel urge to rant about why Chondritic Order is not here after 6 months waiting... but what one did expect?
It might not make it right, or make it acceptable, but I feel that it's pretty well known fact who are fast labels. Who are efficient labels. Who are slow, who have high quality, who have low quality. It might not be all that clear to those who don't read forums that are full of people experiences or people who haven't been around. But it does surprise me, that over and over and over again, certain labels are getting blame for being what they have ALWAYS been. About qualities they have ALWAYS had. Nobody says we have to take part of XXX labels comp. Or place order to XXX label. But despite all the warning sings everywhere, it still happens.
So as much as I would like to be critical about places that should be avoided, I think suitable would be remind that there are labels who have been around for dacades who handle things well and fast. With very limited amount of money everybody has, it might be worthwile to see where to spend it. Like hyped ltd 50 spray paint CDr you'll never get, or perhaps simply some good CD for 8$ what you'll have in your hands in 5 days?

To pay with paypal and pull back money if you don't get the goods. 1 month is already the time you should have your order, if not, then just pull back the money. Don't send trades in advance to labels with dubious reputation. You might not get the stuff, but at least you didn't lose yours. In my experience, very normal behavior in scene. Deadbeats have always been there, are there now, and will be there in future. I would say that in days of abundance when you simply can not get everything, you can make choise of trade and investment based on what is known to be easy, fast and reliable.

[alpharmania]

The irony of the situation is that I rather expected to read something about content of package I mailed out Ben this monday (together with parcels to amongst others Freak Animal). I intentionally waited until I had new LP to include to compensate long wait. According to postal service it should take between 4-6 days to US from Sweden.
Life can sure be fucked up, almost like an evil curse but what has been keeping me from ending it has been my obsessive soundwork and involvement in noise scene. It has been like driving force through hard times. Even if no people care about it, it gives purpose to our shitlives.

Concerning kids... for me things both got easier and more difficult when my son was born. It gave life new meaning and perspective, while on other hand also consuming all free time for the first year. It is also much harder to care about two lives instead of one. However, I really recommend it and think your son/daughter will have a great time growing up in Flagstaff!

[FreakAnimalFinland]

And I can confirm that much that, yes, I have received my package from Styggelse. I have no problems.

It was general talk about labels who have reputation, including cases like mentioned DTM. I wonder who'd ever place order there? Guy is a rip off who cheats & bootlegs even bands of his own label and is so money hungry, you couldn't believe if stories were told. And its seems to me common knowledge. Everybody talks about it about everywhere. Perhaps the lure of few nice items on the label just makes people to send $.

[alpharmania]

I think I listed alternatives three times for DTM but none of the stuff was in stock. At last I got very unpolite answer, then nothing happened until I talked to some friends from Sundsvall that are supposed to release on his label (reading about Goatpenis adventures with DTM I think they are in for a thrill). Better late then never, though.

However, such a branding never goes away. Either you live with it and try to do best of out if to make things right, or you just leave the scene. I know from experience that it is consequently best alternative to provide wholesale batches of tapes through reliable mailorders like Segerhuva, RTB, Molehill, FA etc. instead of selling them one-by-one myself with risk of delays and complications.

[Andrew McIntosh]

Does anyone have suggestions on how to deal with a dead beat label, especially when the label and person who runs it has a lot of respect in the scene?  

You name and shame them.