Attacks on paris 13/14.11.2015

[tiny_tove]

Some reasonable analysis. First I'd heard of this "Management Of Savagery" text.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/15/terrorists-isis

Radical Arab Sunni revivalism, which Isis now spearheads, is a dynamic, revolutionary countercultural movement of world historic proportions, with the largest and most diverse volunteer fighting force since the second world war. In less than two years, it has created a dominion over hundreds of thousands of square kilometres and millions of people. Despite being attacked on all sides by internal and external foes, it has not been degraded to any appreciable degree, while rooting ever stronger in areas it controls and expanding its influence in deepening pockets throughout Eurasia.

I think it's very significant that they are so blatant about using young idealists for violent ends. When previous ideologies have done that, they've had some success. The human race never lacks for cannon fodder.

The usual left/right arguments - it's all the US's fault versus bomb the bastards - are just everyone hitching their usual bandwagons onto this. In the meantime, Islamists are kicking goals. Bombing Syria doesn't seem to be having the desired effect. Guerrilla armies tend to be difficult to destroy, and lone wolves nearly always almost impossible to detect beforehand.

I'll rephrase my previous question - who's to say they can be defeated?

Very interesting analysis (and thanks for bringing back the discussion on planet earth).

My concern is not Islam per se (no more no less than other religion), but Salafism and other form of integralist rganisation that have been used actively during the so-called Arab springs. During the inital stage, these people were bred and fed by the west (especially by France, the Uk and partly by USA) to destabilise the whole Arabic/Maghreb area. First Saddam, then Gheddafi, Mubarak, etc. All dictators who have been allied to countries of the west for one reason or the other, that became useless or too independent to be trusted.

In Syria (as in Egypt), big groups of religious fanatics have been supported to take down Assad, but things went out of hand (as already happened in Afghanistan with the mujaeddin turned to Taliban, who were trained in the Balkans by a weird mix of Islamic countries and US baked mercenaries, often coming also from Italy/Switzerland, ecc).

What happened in Paris was announced and more shit seems to be on its way and won't be solved by resending immigrants back to they come from, since the danger in Europe is represented by people with European passports and who are British, French, ecc. citizens.

Not an easy situation you can solve in one week end.

[Andrew McIntosh]

I want to think that ISIS will eventually break down due to its own madness and impossibility. They tend to burn lot of bridges for potential allies with all that brutality (you might be doing something wrong when even other islamist extremists stop working with you due to your actions) and in long run, their system seems to be quite unsustainable.

These are good points. As I understand it, ISIS were actually kicked out of Al Qaeda for being too full on. But I also understand overtures have been made between the two organisations again. Alliances stand or fall on expediency, and I think "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is originally an Arabic slogan. In any case, if ISIS are the current top dogs it will attract others to them.

Mind you, I have wondered in the past how ISIS would deal with, for example, Boko Haram. Racism between Arabs and Africans has been sore for centuries.

As for sustainability, I tend to think that's an issue too. At this stage it's impossible for a lay observer like me to call. Probably for professionals, too. But it's not like there aren't any precedents. I think of the Russian revolution - they just took over entire infrastructures, and yes, ran them to the ground, but controlled them nonetheless while building new ones. And I don't know if ISIS have the same class scruples the communists did, so keeping managers in charge of factories, for example, might not be such a big deal for them.

Obviously I don't know enough to say, I'm just speculating based on my meager knowledge. But in short, I also like to think they've bitten off more than they can chew. Some pundits have suggested the fact that they're re-resorting to terrorism is a sign they're feeling weak with their caliphate. Maybe.

[Andrew McIntosh]

What happened in Paris was announced...

I didn't know that. That suggests either laxness in French security, or inefficiency. Or, as at S11, the terrorists were just the better team on the day.

...and more shit seems to be on its way...

Without a doubt.

[tiny_tove]

too bad it is only in Italian.

http://www.fascinazione.info/2015/11/dopo-parigi-che-fare.html

I am not a fan of Cardini (historic researcher and archeologist with right wing background, but now active in culture at 360 degrees), but this article does not miss one point.

- differences between Daesh and the rest of the Islamic world
- the war is also against Sciites
- the background of terrorists born in Europe
- France giving money to extremism against Gheddafi and Assad
- striking Daesh in syria won't solve the problem completely, since these unites are often "leaderless resistance" cells, using the Is brand, but not necessarily connected to the root of the problem,
.

ecc.

[tiny_tove]

an interview to Cardini about the funds http://espresso.repubblica.it/plus/articoli/2015/06/29/news/ecco-chi-finanzia-il-califfato-1.219189?ref=fbpe

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

But he is correct about immigrants these days, they are only after easy life and social benefits. Leeches of our society.

It speaks in German that Polish people are thiefs.

[MT]

But he is correct about immigrants these days, they are only after easy life and social benefits. Leeches of our society.

It speaks in German that Polish people are thiefs.

Ha ha!

[tiny_tove]

But he is correct about immigrants these days, they are only after easy life and social benefits. Leeches of our society.

It speaks in German that Polish people are thiefs.

no, worst thieves are greasy Italians. bloody wops, they should all be sent back to Naples to play mandolino with their baffi neri

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

But he is correct about immigrants these days, they are only after easy life and social benefits. Leeches of our society.

It speaks in German that Polish people are thiefs.

no, worst thieves are greasy Italians. bloody wops, they should all be sent back to Naples to play mandolino with their baffi neri

Hahaha, good one :) I heard only about "greasy", with combs inside a back pocket of the pants :)

[tiny_tove]

I didn't mean there was a date, etc. (although there are conspiracy theorists who are sure that Jews/Masons/Aliens are behind it and stated the exact date lol, read this demented piece http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/were-the-paris-attacks-predicted-on-the-january-cover-of-the-economist/), but several times France was threatened and alarmed to wait for something bigger than Hebdo's carnage. Intelligence and geopolical experts have been warning about it since January.

[Andrew McIntosh]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/16/french-and-belgian-intelligence-knew-paris-attackers-had-jihadi-backgrounds

At one point, Abu Oud recounts being stopped by a policeman who checked him against the picture in his wanted notice but still failed to recognise him and let him go.

Similarly, Sami Amimour, one of the gunmen at the Bataclan, had been detained in October 2012 on suspicion of terrorist links, and had an international arrest warrant out on him after he broke his parole the following year and travelled to Syria. Yet he returned in mid-October 2014, and was able to remain at large until the attacks.

In another embarrassment, Salah Abdeslam, who hired one of the cars used by the attackers and is the brother of one of the terrorists who blew himself up outside the Comptoir Voltaire cafe, was stopped in a vehicle with two other men on the French-Belgian border a few hours after the attack and questioned, but then released.

[Scat-O-Logy]

[eraciator]

So ? We have to praise our enemy ?

Well I'll be disappointed if there isn't at least one limited edition cassette release with a poorly photocopied image of the shootings on the cover. Are you some kind of liberal or something?

It's all wank fodder when it's Nazi atrocities or chopping up prostitutes. Why is this any different?

I ll try to keep calm and give you an answer. Even if there will be such a release [Maybe] do you think that means the artist supports these attacks or Jihad in general ? Do you think every nazi reference / photo or dead prostitute on a cover / lyrics means the artist is necessarily nazi or killer ?

This is different [For me] because i know my enemies. Those fucking jihadists are my enemies. I hate them. Can you understand that ? So even if it's interesting what does a pathetic looser to suicide taking with him dozens of innocents in the name of his god, that's not my main concern in this case.

And i don't have any problem if such cover release exist. I maybe buy it, if it's good. Neither i would have any problem if someone appeared and said "Look, i support jihadists and i admire their actions cause this + that". What my problem is the fucking apolitic / no brainer comments, saying more or less, in other words "Wow, cause of them we can now have a bunch of dead people photos for releases" or "Wow, they gave us show to watch on TV" and then call me a liberal ! Seems you are exactly like the liberals want you, apolitic ! Not knowing who your enemies are. Sorry.

How come Peter Sutcliffe killing prostitutes is all LOLZ, but ISIL shooting up a "decadent prostitute party" at the Bataclan is so terrible? Have as many enemies as you like, just be consistent, eh? It's the same divinely inspired sadistic impulse in both cases.

[tiny_tove]

both behaviors are pathological, yet one was sex driven, this is political. there is quite a difference in between.

[HongKongGoolagong]

both behaviors are pathological, yet one was sex driven, this is political. there is quite a difference in between.

Unconscious sexual motivations behind caliphate expansion always there. Jihadi John as new heartthrob pop star martyr, Sally Jones as MILF siren. Eros and Thanatos.

Who's to say the Islamists wont win in the end?

I suspect they may well do, but hope it's after I've enjoyed a lot more decadence first. A BDSM dungeon I was in was fucking packed the night after the events. Anyone for a drink, fellow Romans?