Good records released by total dickheads - to buy or not to buy?

[Marko-V]

One of those lazy sunday afternoon brainstorming discussions.

Do you buy musically good records made by artists (or released by labels) you think are total fucking assholes in person (or have completely different political/religious/whatever views than yours)? Does that even matter? Or vice versa, do you buy records from artists that you feel like being nice people even if the records themselves ain't that good, just to support the scene or friends?
I, personally, don't usually judge records by their makers personalities or views. Musical quality is the determining factor. I've bought some records released by people with totally different opinions from mine but that's not an issue for me. But on few rare occasions I've made a decision of buying some records 2nd hand from some poor individual instead of buying them straight from artists/labels. Recently I borrowed a certain band's cds from library and made myself cdr copies with xeroxed covers only because I thought the band's leading figure was a complete twat. I've done that few times before and I'll surely do it again... no regrets. But, as I said before, it usually doesn't matter.
Sometimes I've made a charity work of bying a so-so release only because I feel like they are worth supporting or just nice blokes (assuming the music is stylishly something I normally would listen). But that's something I rarely do anymore.
I have a feeling that the latter happens more often, especially in small and more insider scenes (applies to all genres).

[Fluid Fetish]

I buy music that I like, that appeals to me, or that gives me an erection or a smile or all the above. I couldn't care less about everything else ultimately.

The views, personalities, ideology, concepts are all important and interesting don't get me wrong, but it has absolutely no affect ultimately in my decision of how and who I listen to . It can definitely be a factor for me being interested more or less, but on the opposite end of the spectrum I definitely do not get 'offended' or butthurt over different views, opposing opinions, sensationalism etc nor is it a deciding factor in if I'll support them or not, whereas what they produce and how it affects me is what is actually important.

[Peterson]

Frankly, I think that in any area of life, if you went by the rule of "I disagree therefore I avoid," you'd be an SJW type person. Plenty of opposing political and spiritual/religious views, etc., among the stuff I purchase, listen, what have you - Bad Brains and Skrewdriver happen to be equally important bands to me. I listen to tons of music from folks who lead lifestyles I tend to try hard avoiding exposure to, for example Eyehategod. Another angle on that is that I am a huge fan of Metallica since I was a little kid, but there is no way Hetfield or Ulrich are getting a dime from me, they don't need the money - I'd much rather buy their stuff 2nd-hand. Also, I guess I can safely say that anything involving ultra-trendy hipsters, post-punk artfags, emo kids, and dirty smelly crust punkers I tend to avoid due to overt personal biases against people I'd like to punch in the mouth or worse.

I don't know, I like Hanson records a fair amount but could complain a lot about some of the titles, the label descriptions, etc., but that kind of closed-mindedness and narrow view of what things should or shouldn't be is not really why I'm interested in music, period. On the other hand, I wouldn't really care if someone was to notice the things I gravitate toward follow a predictable pattern. I just get what I like, what seems new and wild to me or appeals to me already, and I actively try to go outside what's typical for me, I guess.

My biases have a lot to do with things, but I try to step outside them whenever it's reasonable to do so.

[Fluid Fetish]

My biases have a lot to do with things, but I try to step outside them whenever it's reasonable to do so.

Well said, your post said it much better then mine, as does just this sentence too. I think it's important to make sure that your own biases and perceptions are not causing you to limit what you're exposing yourself to or what you're into. I have no problem listening to old jazz or southern gangster rap  and then jumping to Der Sturmer or Skrewdriver, not because " Look at me, I'm so diverse and open minded!" but just that these types of music all appeal to me in different ways and are apart of various obsessions, fetishes, fixations and also were apart of my past discovering and exploring music and people..

Will admit to avoiding certain genres and types of people (crusties...) but the music that can come out of these scenes, or the music that influenced these types of people and occassionally even some of the bands still interests me, I cannot stand crust punks but I absolutely love Amebix, Anti cemix, Skitsystem etc. still.

[cantle]

Buy- unless it was a personal issue. The sound and whether I like it or not is the only thing that matters rather than the politics of someone you are unlikely to meet....

[a_2_g_2]

Bad Brains and Skrewdriver happen to be equally important bands to me.

You too?! Personally, I've always loved bands or artists that have never apologized for their lyrics or views. HR's anti-gay rhetoric has gotten him some shit, but it's mainly ignored cause he's a rasta. A guy like Ian Mackaye on the other hand has to go on record every chance he gets in order to say hes not a racist homophobe or whatever.

In response to the OP, I don't try to limit myself when deciding to support an artist or not. I've always found it important to separate the sound from the message when necessary.   

[Peterson]

Another funny aspect of that is that H.R. is generally revered for all that despite being mostly an unstable, homeless, pot-dealing scumbag, while ISD, generally known as a stand-up guy, kind to his friends and family, etc., is maligned because of his political affiliations. So I guess another aspect is that while some might consider being a nationalist, racist, or whatever "being a total dickhead," it's my opinion this is much preferable over pretty low-level street urchin behavior.

[F_c_O]

In my opinion it doesnt matter if youre homeless, smoke pot and such or if you have family and go to work and have a permanent residence. Asshole is an asshole and you can be total cunthead even if you lead 'socially acceptable' lifestyle or you can be total stand up guy even if you choose to live outside the norms of society. Not that I am not biased in this matter but I try not to be, hehe.

Not going to say anything about h.r or anyone else in specific, mainly because I dont know those people personally. Ive seen some live gig footages and the old gigs of bad brains (I assume you meant h.r of bad brains here) seemed like proper fun.

Anyway, I dont give a shit generally. Ill never meet the guys, I rarely even know what kind of person is behind project x. There are some bands I generally avoid due to their politics not alignin with mine but that is extremely, extremely rare and usually it goes hand on hand with me not enjoying their music that much either. I own material that advocates things that I oppose completely, I own stuff that I agree with. Doesnt matter if I agree or dont agree with content or the persons behind the material, what matters in the end is it good as music or any form of art.

[holy ghost]

I suppose my criteria for avoiding something would be based on a pretty specific criteria. Are you an egomaniac? Shitty tipper? Kind of a douche? IV drug user? Preachy crust punk? Vapes at shows? Sure I can sort of look past all that. I don't need musicians to match my world view specifically, but much like my friends, I wouldn't tolerate:

Being a total piece of shit
Ripping people off (scene rip off or in real life)
Being a legit racist/Nazi (not "I own a Graveland CD look how edgy I am")
Being a someone who treats women like shit, hits women, mansplains all the live long day etc

HOWEVER I'm not the sort of person to actively screen for this stuff before I buy something, it's more like.... okay remember when that doom band from Belgium found out their lead singer was an active pederast? Like that's a deal breaker I'm not into hearing that. But does the fact that Joe from Goatlord just got arrested for killing his entire family and then himself last year diminish how much I like the band? Not really.... okay so here's an example - obviously the Casualties fucking suck large and always have, but the singer has been widely called out for raping a bunch of women. If I liked the Casualties  (which I do not) I would not be on board with that kind of shit even if it's just allegations. Would I buy anything from Blake Judd? Not even if he wasn't a scumbag rip off, but he clearly is....

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

okay remember when that doom band from Belgium found out their lead singer was an active pederast? Like that's a deal breaker I'm not into hearing that.

Decent band but that guy is a massive, MASSIVE penis though. Enough to avoid him on all fronts.

[Dr Alex]

okay remember when that doom band from Belgium found out their lead singer was an active pederast? Like that's a deal breaker I'm not into hearing that.

Decent band but that guy is a massive, MASSIVE penis though. Enough to avoid him on all fronts.

Which band?

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Thee Plague of Gentlemen.
I got lots of their CD in stock. I believe label stopped selling the album after shit hit the fan. I felt that whatever the reality of this case or all the people involved may be, if nobody wants to sell it, I may do it. Needless to say, it hasn't sold much since, but it's pretty good album in genre. And whether the stories are totally accurate or not, element that there are some seriously vile characters in band makes it far more interesting group than just bunch of stoners jamming heavy riffs.

This said, it is probably quite obvious that I don't have problems with "dickheads". I don't have slightest problem with bands who have different "opinions" or worldview. It's not that I would not care, but in terms of good records, good albums, and good bands, it's not so much about what exactly are their opinions, but level of passion, fanaticism, vision and commitment. Be it utterly opposite of your personal view, it is certainly possible to capture the spirit & feeling of the work.

I believe this sort of discussions have started to rise more and more last few years, where people have butthurt over their celebrated rockstars saying things they dislike. Be it indie music fans being upset of Morrissey cekebrating Brexit, or metal magazines raving over some former hair-metal celebrity not understanding to appreciate black popularculture music.

I do understand that certain things ruin the feeling of spirit of album or band. Usually not what is being said, but how it is said. When I see lots of apologies and lots of crybabies, it usually makes me much much less interested in what they do. As such attitude probably bleeds into their creations on all levels.

[Peterson]

And whether the stories are totally accurate or not, element that there are some seriously vile characters in band makes it far more interesting group than just bunch of stoners jamming heavy riffs.

I was sort of surprised by all the criteria certain folks mentioned as far as what constitutes a "total dickhead," I sort of figured certain antisocial behavior and criminal actions sort of went along with the territory of "extreme" music, but I guess it's easy enough to offend Canadians. Just kidding. But really, it's odd to me that some would want to avoid certain political and, ah, "romantic" inclinations among music such as Intolitarian or Snuff, but hey, different strokes for different folks, right?

My only real issue is not wanting to fund someone's drug habit, like Blake Judd or whomever.

I'll readily admit I didn't go and check out that Nothingisttrue guy's material until the stuff about him showed up on the news. Same goes for Goatloard. When the ugly details about the Blood For Blood singer came out, I revisited two of my CDs. Started listening to "Defenders of the Faith" more often when I found out the legal history of Judas Priest's drummer. Been listening to a lot more Swans since the recent controversy.

Before everyone misinterprets what I'm saying to mean that this is some sort of criteria for listening, it's not; it's just that I'm willing to look at their music in a new, not necessarily negative light when these unsavory aspects of their personal lives come out. Am I really that much of a prick for not being surprised that people actually do the things they talk and think about?

[Duncan]

I do understand that certain things ruin the feeling of spirit of album or band. Usually not what is being said, but how it is said. When I see lots of apologies and lots of crybabies, it usually makes me much much less interested in what they do. As such attitude probably bleeds into their creations on all levels.

Yep, generally anyone who can't make a decent argument about something they supposedly believe in is not likely to be that good at what they do.  You can say that about any side of this now long rolled over debate.  

I sometimes think it is said a little bit to easily that 'it doesn't matter, so long as it sounds good' but for me it's about getting to the point of listening in the first place most times.  If you are in any way un/fortunate enough to have an insight into the people behind the music of course it influences how you come to think about it and whether or not you want to listen to it at all.  I don't think it matters whether you're the blinkered liberal upset at some words/imagery or the meat head with no retort to that but to call the person a faggot who doesn't get it - you're still a fucking cliche and I bet your shit album reflects that.  So, realistically, why would I want to find out whether it sounds great regardless of what an idiot this person appears to be?

I also don't particularly buy into the idea that music having explicit political/social themes you don't like/care about isn't a totally valid aesthetic reason to reject it...especially if we're talking about something you'd purchase and have in your collections vs occasionally wheel up on youtube.  I might be interested in what Scientology has to say from time to time but that doesn't mean I'll fill my shelves with it's literature each time I'm curious...and especially not based on the argument that it is well written?!  Same with an awful lot of music that happens to have a 'controversial' outlook different to my own: sounds ok but more often than not has really fucking dull images and lyrics surrounding it so why spend time simply getting bombarded with slogans and images you're bored of seeing?  Certainly not for the sake of appearing open minded...

I don't need my artists to be good people by any stretch of the imagination but I do need them to create interesting art.  

[Dr Alex]

Thee Plague of Gentlemen.

I know the story but I've thought TPOG was from US.