logic of micro release within noise?

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

People should release less.

People should be better.

[GEWALTMONOPOL]

People should release less.

People should be better.

Agreed. I'll add to that: When you release something, make it count.

[Zeno Marx]

This is probably more accurate, but then we get into question, do you need marketing ploy to ensure sales of 20? Or... 6? If you have for example HNW CDR set ltd 6 copies, do you need to post it all over internet, if you already know about 10 times more people who you could mail direct, who are the ones who buy it.

This needed to be said and not just a glancing thought.  Good point.  This is about ego...or convention...or anything that makes any sense.

Demand, is not something you can measure by seeing what happens when release is NOT available. It is something what you can measure when it IS available. With discussions of various label bosses, many say that after edition sold out, they didn't get any inquiries about it. Of course not. It gets more and more rare, that someone actually approaches label or band to ask what they have, since everybody's aim is to sell out and have nothing. As soon as possible. This is the modern method of any business. Everybody claims the warehouse full of stuff is bad for business. And then you ask, so is your band your business? Is all you value current market tactics?

Like this paragraph a lot.  I'd be curious to watch this discussion.

When I'd get an order for something that had been out for a couple years, it was fun and exciting.  The order was usually accompanied by an enthusiastic note, maybe telling of "I just got into this group, so it is nice to be able to order a copy of this record without having to watch eBay or beg for a copy on message boards." Running a label is supposed to be fun and experiential, correct?  Rather than this strict business mode of "Thank goodness I sold another copy.  I'm tired of the fucking things being in the house."  It's all about perspective, and there are many to take.  Unfortunately, the perspectives most traveled at this time are really sort of sad and counter-productive.

[Nyodene D]

on a totally unrelated side note, its great to see this forum active.  you can't get well-thought-out threads going like this because of the endless supply of idiots, trolls and delusional assholes on troniks....

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

Mikko wanted to discuss about LOGIC. I have more free time so I can write something more here.
Mentioned LOGIC OF MICRO RELEASE, in my opinion, come from here:

1. Aspect of real underground art who grow up from DADA (SCHWITTERS' s or PICABIA's works), MAIL ART and next from INTERNATIONAL CASSETTE NETWORK. Motto was: ART IS NOT PRODUCT, especially, NOT MASS PRODUCT. Next motto: ART IS FOR ART even if ART must be ANTI-ART.

2. Aspect of ANTI-CULTURAL which is against cornerstones of consumerism. mass-media and capitalysm. If mentioned elements of dominating system are based on mass production, all anti-cultural circle should question this system and offer different, based on uniqueness and intentional reduced of done products.

3. Aspect of ANTI-ART / ANTI-MUSIC which questions all forms of habits, standards and canons in classic ART and its next clones, and first of all, in brain of customers.

[SKY BURIAL]

At the complete opposite end of the spectrum is the lack of logic of over pressing (touched upon in a previous post) . I noticed on another board a new 3 cd compilation in an edition of 1000 featuring 50 bands, only one (maybe two) of which I recognized as "bands" (though I did recognize some user names from the board). An over-ambitious rookie "mistake" from a newish label usually doing editions of 10-50?

[kettu]

An over-ambitious rookie "mistake" from a newish label usually doing editions of 10-50?

Im not sure if its fair to call it a mistake if the guy wants to do a bigger release. do I remember our fair mod making posts about the price difference of 500 to 1000 copies pressed. there was hardly any so why not go for the bigger one if the label guy wants to do that.

mistake is a mistake, this was  done on purpose.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Mikko wanted to discuss about LOGIC. I have more free time so I can write something more here.
Mentioned LOGIC OF MICRO RELEASE, in my opinion, come from here:

1. Aspect of real underground art who grow up from DADA (SCHWITTERS' s or PICABIA's works), MAIL ART and next from INTERNATIONAL CASSETTE NETWORK. Motto was: ART IS NOT PRODUCT, especially, NOT MASS PRODUCT. Next motto: ART IS FOR ART even if ART must be ANTI-ART.

2. Aspect of ANTI-CULTURAL which is against cornerstones of consumerism. mass-media and capitalysm. If mentioned elements of dominating system are based on mass production, all anti-cultural circle should question this system and offer different, based on uniqueness and intentional reduced of done products.

3. Aspect of ANTI-ART / ANTI-MUSIC which questions all forms of habits, standards and canons in classic ART and its next clones, and first of all, in brain of customers.

This I find valid, when it is really artistic choice, based on ideology or aesthetic. I would accept it as logic, yet I wouldn't believe it's reality within most of labels in question, but motivations are rather different (discussed above).
In case of your label, we can see that majority of releases are hand made, often different, sometimes even innovative packaging, and also hand numbered. It underlines the logic of personality and having hands-on approach to every single piece that is done. As opposed to factory product. This, besides that they are actually made available, and decent editions, I find no complaints.

Yet, one could also look at other artforms, where mass production and perhaps rejection of art for sake of art has been abandoned and the reach of people or availability of material is the ideal. Not the exclusiveness. And perhaps, when one looks at the statement number 2, when the consumerism is directed towards the collectible limited trophies, and there is whole market what feeds on this shallow urge, what is the more artistic about it? What is more unique about it? Especially if we look at the actual sonic content of many of them?
The manifest is nice, yet it reminds me of new issue of VICE actually!

So lets look the the latest issue of VICE magazine, which includes Hermann Nitsch, Cosey Fanny Tutti, and various other people. In the "funny mocking remarks section", maybe called "do's and don'ts" of this art issue, they present photo of white canvas with text: "So lemme get this straight. It's the year 2010 and your art is a canvas painted white? So you're attempting to challenge my preconceived notions of challenging my preconceived notions of what art is?".

Glorification of limited items based on past centuries distaste against factory product seems slightly out of place if one could see that we aren't really talking about alternative or solution, rather than new kind of problem, which wasn't perhaps expected. Like white canvas now, seems like the lamest artschool fags attempt to do something easy as fuck, and pretend as if meant something. When all he need, is someone to teach him what could be better angle to approach this. And nothing wrong with it. Life's about learning, isn't it?

Off topic, yet Nitsch interview is actually nice, when he puts it well in words, when he is asked about nature is his works. At least he claims, he never intended to shock. He is not looking for shock effect, but he seeks for pure intensity. And as lame and blood and guts may feel when its done and seen, in some of the archetypical way it just remain intense.

[SKY BURIAL]

Im not sure if its fair to call it a mistake if the guy wants to do a bigger release.

Thus my use of quotations around the word "mistake". Not meaning to criticize the person for wanting to go bigger, I was just surprised at the ambition behind a triple cd with a draw that seems limited. I'm not a stranger to these boards so I was surprised at only recognizing one or two of fifty acts. I can't fault anyone for their passion.

[kettu]

big edition makes it possible to give out more copies to the artists, especially when theres so many and still break even/make proffit. dont know if that happening heh heh but there is the possibility.

[SKY BURIAL]

big edition makes it possible to give out more copies to the artists, especially when theres so many and still break even/make proffit. dont know if that happening heh heh but there is the possibility.

Makes sense. Give each artist 10 copies each and there's half the press run but with 500 hundred already out there with the bands it seems like market saturation leaving little room to sell even one copy.

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

And perhaps, when one looks at the statement number 2, when the consumerism is directed towards the collectible limited trophies, and there is whole market what feeds on this shallow urge, what is the more artistic about it? What is more unique about it? Especially if we look at the actual sonic content of many of them? The manifest is nice, yet it reminds me of new issue of VICE actually!

I see your doubts about consumerism in that context and I aggree with you. I thought about other form of consumerism, more popular in society. Many consumers (unfortunately me too sometimes), even in underground scene, relent "mystique" of uniqueness. They think that micro release within noise can be something like VAN GOGH's or PICASSO's paintings. They can feel like owners of those paintings... Maybe this is funny, but I don't see in that any problem for me as consumer, for artist (who makes arrangement with label before about number of copies to sell), and for ART/MUSIC where are thousands records to listen and nobody says that we will able to listen or get all of them.

[Brad]

I noticed on another board a new 3 cd compilation in an edition of 1000 featuring 50 bands, only one (maybe two) of which I recognized as "bands" (though I did recognize some user names from the board).

I think a few others are fairly well known, but just outside the scope of the forum.   Mono No Aware, Black Lung, Hypnoskull, 100Blumen and Snog are more associated with electro-industrial labels than "noise" in the strict sense.

[PTM Jim]

Forgive me to revive this dead topic, but the search function yielded no results to my question.

I see no reason to NOT do UNLIMITED editions of the tapes I make. I tend to do 50-100 and have even begun doing 150-200.  I feel as if I'm doing an artist injustice by making something like 30 copies.

My question is: If I were to do unlimited copies, what would you guys deem an appropriate number of artist copies? I usually do 20-25% never less (I've gone as much as 33% going to artists with the ANHEDONIA comp).
Mathematically, 20% of infinity (theoretically unlimited) doesn't exist [it should technically be infinity]. Any thoughts?

Do you think I should make 100 (or 200, etc) and give a percentage of the number I make?  Then if I make more, give them a percentage?

[martialgodmask]

I've released limited editions and bought plenty alike. I think as a new label, there is a large degree of water-testing for many. Some people will progress past this, some people will make it their niche. There is a place for both, but there does come a point as a noise consumer where the limitedness of a given release can be a detrimental factor - see a tape/cdr/lathe on forum, < 20 copies, lots of interest/discussion, assume sold out, move on to next thread. It's an assumption that is unfair on the artist and label perhaps, but one I would imagine to be fairly common? Happy to be corrected on this if not the case.

I've backed off from releases for the time being as I felt that I wasn't really doing the label "thing" justice. Something I may pick up again some day but financially out of the question right now.

And in terms of of a new artist pumping out shit at a thousand miles an hour, my first tape came out around this time 2009. 50 copies through my own label, a handful remaining. The second release? Maybe one day soon, no rush.