Witch Hunt Season is Open

[Bloated Slutbag]

Well that was tedious and tiny bit off topic. Thought this threat was about current round of millennials being offended by the apparent rise of neo-nazis in the underground music scene

That is certainly one potential reading of this thread.

In the meantime a few subjects came up, which perhaps might be of interest to some. For example, whether more integrity is to be perceived in commenting, in public, on one's former self, or in publicly refraining from commenting on that self. Among other subjects.

[deutscheasphalt]

Depends on what the former self that's being commented on consists of no?

[Bloated Slutbag]

I was going to add- it's none of my business but key to that is the question of whether pressure to comment is felt. Y'know, under pressure, real or perceived, stuff happens. Not all of it predictable.

[Cementimental]

Thought this threat was about current round of millennials being offended by the apparent rise of neo-nazis in the underground music scene

nobody involved in the original Skullflower situation was a millennial or in any way a newbie to the underground/noise scene, for what it's worth

[FreakAnimalFinland]

nobody involved in the original Skullflower situation was a millennial or in any way a newbie to the underground/noise scene, for what it's worth

This, is what seems to be situation with many of the cases. Plus, add, that like with Skullflower, you can't really see any "nazis" around. Guys who certainly know what's up with industrial music, behave as if they did not.

If this would be about "apparent rise of neo-nazis in the underground music scene", I would suspect that they would write about neo-nazis and not about Whitehouse, SJ, Skullflower or such, hah... If one would actually write articles about neo-nazis, that would not be witch hunt.

[Bloated Slutbag]

Thought this threat was about current round of millennials being offended by the apparent rise of neo-nazis in the underground music scene

nobody involved in the original Skullflower situation was a millennial or in any way a newbie to the underground/noise scene, for what it's worth

Just re-quoting Cementimental's quote cause I'd prefer that it were attributed to the person who actually said it. I wouldn't presume to admonish contributors on the trajectory of their discussion...well, unless that trajectory involved lifting quotes from others and attributing them to me of course.

[Dekay71]

Thought this threat was about current round of millennials being offended by the apparent rise of neo-nazis in the underground music scene

nobody involved in the original Skullflower situation was a millennial or in any way a newbie to the underground/noise scene, for what it's worth
[/quote]

Wasn't referring to Skullflower in that way as well aware of mr bowers history and age. The millennials are the 20 somethings writing the in depth articles in quietus ec. About the fascism in the scene. If you look over the black sky thinking column there is a series of articles referring to this.

[Cementimental]

Just re-quoting Cementimental's quote cause I'd prefer that it were attributed to the person who actually said it.

oops yeah i broke the quote tag, fixed it now

Wasn't referring to Skullflower in that way as well aware of mr bowers history and age. The millennials are the 20 somethings writing the in depth articles in quietus ec. About the fascism in the scene. If you look over the black sky thinking column there is a series of articles referring to this.

As i said, neither people who wrote those articles, nor the organisers of the festival who cancelled skullflower, are 'millennials' or newbies to noise/underground music.

[PuddysJacket]

Millennial newcomers... perhaps not. Mewling faggots? Absolutely

[CannibalRitual]

The millennials are the 20 somethings writing the in depth articles in quietus ec.

Well, in the meantime millennials are actually more like the 30 somethings. What you are talking about are "zoomers" (lol)

[slagfrenzy tapes]

Well that was tedious and tiny bit off topic. Thought this threat was about current round of millennials being offended by the apparent rise of neo-nazis in the underground music scene

That is certainly one potential reading of this thread.

In the meantime a few subjects came up, which perhaps might be of interest to some. For example, whether more integrity is to be perceived in commenting, in public, on one's former self, or in publicly refraining from commenting on that self. Among other subjects.

Yes some integrity is good, I'm so guilty of not using it.
Just integrity in general for comments in public... Not for history...
Within history, that's what you felt, looking backwards does not work, no guesswork, live with it, move on. That made you what you are.
Good point by the way.

[slagfrenzy tapes]

Or on a different tack,
Its better to regret something you have done, than regret somethig you haven't  - Butthole Surfers

[host body]

i feel that nowadays a lot of noise people kind of hide behind the intent and transgression of older legendary acts. looking how nazi aesthetics were used by transgressive groups ranging from the hells angels to industrial musicians, those symbols were highly taboo yet the attitudes that they represent were very much still the same in society in a way that has changed dramatically in the past 30 years. now as we see the same kind of political groups as the nazis rise in popularity all over the western world, those symbols are not seen as a sign of transgression or "exposing" hypocrisy but support for a legitimate political movement that aims radical political change in society.

correct me if i'm wrong, but many 80s "controversial" lyrics were commentary on contemporary issues and attitudes (same as big blacks jordan, minnesota), not reflective of the artists own opinions or attitudes. sutcliffe jugend guys also commented on this, saying that modern PE is not to their liking as opposed to early 80s because their lyrics they meant to oppose certain misogynistic or racist attitudes by exposing them have become to represent general attitudes in the noise scene. ie. people didn't get their intent but took them 100% straight. same as what many people here are accusing the "radical left" of doing.

my point is, the world has changed and the political climate has changed since when the pioneering transgressive acts took all these taboos the noise scene still revolves around as inspiration. the internet is such a cesspool that those things do not shock anyone, using them as your main source of inspiration just makes people think you're a bigot.

[deutscheasphalt]

i feel that nowadays a lot of noise people kind of hide behind the intent and transgression of older legendary acts. looking how nazi aesthetics were used by transgressive groups ranging from the hells angels to industrial musicians, those symbols were highly taboo yet the attitudes that they represent were very much still the same in society in a way that has changed dramatically in the past 30 years. now as we see the same kind of political groups as the nazis rise in popularity all over the western world, those symbols are not seen as a sign of transgression or "exposing" hypocrisy but support for a legitimate political movement that aims radical political change in society.

correct me if i'm wrong, but many 80s "controversial" lyrics were commentary on contemporary issues and attitudes (same as big blacks jordan, minnesota), not reflective of the artists own opinions or attitudes. sutcliffe jugend guys also commented on this, saying that modern PE is not to their liking as opposed to early 80s because their lyrics they meant to oppose certain misogynistic or racist attitudes by exposing them have become to represent general attitudes in the noise scene. ie. people didn't get their intent but took them 100% straight. same as what many people here are accusing the "radical left" of doing.

my point is, the world has changed and the political climate has changed since when the pioneering transgressive acts took all these taboos the noise scene still revolves around as inspiration. the internet is such a cesspool that those things do not shock anyone, using them as your main source of inspiration just makes people think you're a bigot.

Very likely true. I would add that there's possibly even a kind of retrospective confirmation happening in which material from 30 years ago is not being interpreted in relation to respective past era, but in relation to the contemporary; thus finding unfounded support for one's own political views from the older artists. I don't know your age but I would believe your analysis even more if I knew you had been active in the scene for the amount of time to witness both worlds.

[host body]

i feel that nowadays a lot of noise people kind of hide behind the intent and transgression of older legendary acts. looking how nazi aesthetics were used by transgressive groups ranging from the hells angels to industrial musicians, those symbols were highly taboo yet the attitudes that they represent were very much still the same in society in a way that has changed dramatically in the past 30 years. now as we see the same kind of political groups as the nazis rise in popularity all over the western world, those symbols are not seen as a sign of transgression or "exposing" hypocrisy but support for a legitimate political movement that aims radical political change in society.

correct me if i'm wrong, but many 80s "controversial" lyrics were commentary on contemporary issues and attitudes (same as big blacks jordan, minnesota), not reflective of the artists own opinions or attitudes. sutcliffe jugend guys also commented on this, saying that modern PE is not to their liking as opposed to early 80s because their lyrics they meant to oppose certain misogynistic or racist attitudes by exposing them have become to represent general attitudes in the noise scene. ie. people didn't get their intent but took them 100% straight. same as what many people here are accusing the "radical left" of doing.

my point is, the world has changed and the political climate has changed since when the pioneering transgressive acts took all these taboos the noise scene still revolves around as inspiration. the internet is such a cesspool that those things do not shock anyone, using them as your main source of inspiration just makes people think you're a bigot.

Very likely true. I would add that there's possibly even a kind of retrospective confirmation happening in which material from 30 years ago is not being interpreted in relation to respective past era, but in relation to the contemporary; thus finding unfounded support for one's own political views from the older artists. I don't know your age but I would believe your analysis even more if I knew you had been active in the scene for the amount of time to witness both worlds.

i am 34, so sadly not old enough to have been involved with the early industrial noise scene. i base my analysis of the intent of old transgressive groups to reading on the subject. and also listening to a lot of industrial and noise, hah.