Tough Guy PE/Industrial

[Coma Detox]

One of the best sets I've ever seen was Con-Dom at God Blast America.  During the set he did throw a girl to the ground and mount her and she ran out crying.  With that being said any PE pails in comparison of being tough compared to NYHC shows I went to in the 90's.  The stuff that went down there makes any noise show seem tame.  I think it's been established there is no such thing as "tough guy power electronics."

[whiteheatnoise]

One of the best sets I've ever seen was Con-Dom at God Blast America.  During the set he did throw a girl to the ground and mount her and she ran out crying.

PE fans in a nutshell right here

[WCN]

The sad thing too is that Con-Dom is about as deep as PE gets.

[Duncan]

The sad thing too is that Con-Dom is about as deep as PE gets.

Word up

[seventhcircle]

AKA incel electronics

[brutalist_tapes]

it's interesting that this is the contemporary view of PE, in some circles at least.. it will probably never be an "intellectual" art form, but at it's best i think it can be more than just reactionary machismo music... interesting discussion none the less.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

It has been told to my by several American guys who have longer perception on shift. That contemporary PE is vastly more culturally leaning towards hip hop, than hardcore and even more further from the industrial culture. So far, that one barely recognizes it being "same". Surface level elements, such as "shouting" over "synth noise" lump them together, but there is barely similarity when you look at it.

When people laugh and ridicule contemporary PE, I can for sure see why. I can also see why "tough guy" for those people associates instantly to jocks, pussies with guns, junkies behaving like losers, etc. Or that being just rude bully would somehow be connected to PE.

One can simply look at dictionary for other angles:
-(of a substance or object) strong enough to withstand adverse conditions or rough handling.
-endure a period of hardship or difficulty.
-able to endure hardship or pain.
-demonstrating a strict and uncompromising approach.
-having the confidence and determination to cope in difficult situations.

etc.

From dawn on industrial music and emergence of power electronics, artists would present something that generally makes them being disliked and ridiculed. Liked by some, but strongly opposed by some. This substance itself would be tough/strong. Strong enough to poke feeling in nearly random stranger. Some pretend as if they oppose content X because it is "lazy" or "mediocre", but they do not oppose other lazy and other mediocre things. It quickly reveals what they actually oppose.

One of the best sets I've ever seen was Con-Dom at God Blast America.  During the set he did throw a girl to the ground and mount her and she ran out crying.

PE fans in a nutshell right here

Greatness of noise show - for me - is the sheer energy of noise and performance. If someone looks for fight and physical harm, I guess there is other places to go.

But IF it happens that girls leave to hall crying, I ain't losing sleep over it. I do not think Con-Dom gigs, where the harassing ladies is part of the act, is the "tough" element. It is more about having the confidence and determination to cope in difficult situations if and when such emerge. Like, being outcasted, rejected, ridiculed (among many other things) and simply not instantly being issuing apologies, remorse and regret just to please people.

[whiteheatnoise]

Greatness of noise show - for me - is the sheer energy of noise and performance. If someone looks for fight and physical harm, I guess there is other places to go.

But IF it happens that girls leave to hall crying, I ain't losing sleep over it. I do not think Con-Dom gigs, where the harassing ladies is part of the act, is the "tough" element. It is more about having the confidence and determination to cope in difficult situations if and when such emerge. Like, being outcasted, rejected, ridiculed (among many other things) and simply not instantly being issuing apologies, remorse and regret just to please people.

I can't really attest to your other comments as I am not a big fan of most PE to begin with. However, I do agree with you in that great performances often come from high energy and intensity, but harassing a total stranger who also happens to be a female seems cheap to me, and does not possess "sheer energy". It sounds like you are somehow making Con-Dom into some kind of martyr for having the guts to harass a woman and then having to deal with the rejection and ridicule as a result of that, instead of apologizing. To me, that just sounds like the ideals of an incel, not some thought-provoking experimental artist. I will never see the benefit in women being harassed or exploited through art/noise and live performance as that is already an issue in our daily lives, outside of the tiny world of noise and power electronics. It's such an old, tired concept. But to be clear, I realize that I'm no angel and I don't want to come off as a social justice warrior; I mean, I run a business that often makes money from the sales of items that certainly are not in line with my own personal ideals.

[Born F. Mental]

Tough-guy-incel-bad-boy-PE vs Artsy-homo-hippie-nice-noise...battle of 2020...No fucking fence sitters!   

[HONOR_IS_KING!]

From dawn on industrial music and emergence of power electronics, artists would present something that generally makes them being disliked and ridiculed. Liked by some, but strongly opposed by some. This substance itself would be tough/strong. Strong enough to poke feeling in nearly random stranger. Some pretend as if they oppose content X because it is "lazy" or "mediocre", but they do not oppose other lazy and other mediocre things. It quickly reveals what they actually oppose.

Amen Mikko. Very, very well put.

You mentioned how PE is more influenced by hip hop these days. Any examples you got and how this influence plays out?

[ImpulsyStetoskopu]

Tough-guy-incel-bad-boy-PE vs Artsy-homo-hippie-nice-noise...battle of 2020...No fucking fence sitters!   

Yes. Sometimes, often actually, when I read some people here, everything is falling down... and I give up, I prefer to be silent then. Probably it is problem of different generations, maybe some kind of sensitivity, maybe knowledge... I don't know...I know that "noise" or "industrial" (whatever you name it) is becoming a toothless funny beast which is a calque of well-known reality nowadays.

[Born F. Mental]

My toungue in cheek post was mostly trying to point out that people should listen to whatever they want, and that most people out there dip their feet in both camps and inbetween and doesn`t give a shit.

[Coma Detox]

One of the best sets I've ever seen was Con-Dom at God Blast America.  During the set he did throw a girl to the ground and mount her and she ran out crying.

PE fans in a nutshell right here

I wasn't implying what he did made the set great.  The overall sound was what made it superb.  It was just an example of what other's were stating about a live Con-Dom set.  He tried pushing me and he nearly fell over.  Just maximizing my point that "tough guy PE" is not a real term.

[deutscheasphalt]

It sounds like you are somehow making Con-Dom into some kind of martyr for having the guts to harass a woman and then having to deal with the rejection and ridicule as a result of that, instead of apologizing.

People who do that have no clear understanding of Dando's intentions; if you watch the short interview on this aspect of his set, this becomes quite clear. Of course artists can always lie about meaning afterwards and post-hoc rationalize and explain their behavior; but in this case it seemed to be his genuine intention for the act of harassment to be more inclusive of the audience - pushing them to their limit of comfort, to get them to "stand up for themselves" and not about himself having to deal with rejection.
As for the topic, to whom it may concern, to me 'tough guy' has a rather negative connotation and translates a bit to 'edgelord'. So I would personally only use that term to describe ridiculous and immature stage behavior that I cannot take seriously. If the meaning was more like Mikko's dictionary terms, I would simply ascribe the term 'tough' to the person referenced.

[murderous_vision]

To my recollect, it was 20 years ago, the woman attacked at GBA was with a significant other, who watched the remainder of the set and stated that we "was gonna kick his ass" or something along those lines. That's your tough guy right there. Honestly, he should have though. I am a fan of Con-Dom's music, but that is behavior fitting of an ass kicking.