EU / rest of world noise trade

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Maybe some people are aware, some not, but starting from 1st of July, activates new EU laws for importing.
New rules are that there is no free packages. No matter how small, all orders are paid VAT for both shipping and value of the items.

Small "Gifts" are still somewhat excluded, but one still needs to prove that this is gift, not purchase.

This may change a bit the whole structure of how underground operates. Even sending out gift, or trade, receiver may have to log into customs system, provide documents to prove its gift. At least in Finland, handling fee is applied, regardless if they decide that material would be tax free.

Often I have received notifications of arriving parcel, where sender is indicated only as "USA". No idea who sent it and what it contains. Bunch of emails, comparing tracking codes and such things finally may reveal who send and what. This means that things would hopefully be more organized in future. Knowing when stuff is being sent, tracking codes, what value is mentioned in custom papers and so on.

all in all, process doesn't require THAT much time. It is purely related to how much mail you are doing in general. Now that new international postal system requires people to fill CN22 codes online, with full address & content information, it is fairly annoying. I would not be surprised if outrageous postal prices combined with always more complex and expensive customs regulations will have severe impact on "international scene"?

[ConcreteMascara]

Is there a preferred value to assign trade items or gifts that keeps VAT the lowest for receivers?  And if proof of gift is needed is it best to send the receiver a standalone email saying: "I'm sending you a gift package which includes..." ? 90% of what I send to the EU are gifts or trades so I don't want to fuck my friends each time I send a cassette.

[vomitgore]

The EU is certainly making it harder and harder to deal with non-EU countries. France, for example demands online forms to be filled out, if you want to send to non-EU countries, whereas it used to be just a normal post office type deal back in the day. Funnily, all of this has been happening since the UK left...

The price and hassle of procedure will certainly be an aspect, but I guess the fact that parcels will be checked more intensely will also turn people off. After all, Post-Industrial content may certainly provoke more than just a bit of headshaking with some customs agents.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

Is there a preferred value to assign trade items or gifts that keeps VAT the lowest for receivers?  And if proof of gift is needed is it best to send the receiver a standalone email saying: "I'm sending you a gift package which includes..." ? 90% of what I send to the EU are gifts or trades so I don't want to fuck my friends each time I send a cassette.

In theory, if you got CN22 sticker stating gift, and its not big box, it could slip through customs for free. But even now, when old more relaxed law is applied, I got even promos or gifts that I need to fill forms online to either prove its gift or just suck it up and pay import taxes - which may be faster and easier after all. Amusing thing is that in Finland, when you pay for "handling fee" of package, you must do it with card. Not possible to use banktransfer or such. One needs to have card and use it online to pay the fee. Otherwise you won't get the letter, even if you paid taxes. They'll also ask there if you are paying this behalf of someone. So, besides EU making it more difficult, it appears quite dystopian surveillance system of even all private mail...

[Theodore]

The same people in Brussels i bet they were accusing US ex-president for 'protectionism' and 'isolation' . So, what happened to the globalization project ? -Pretty much- Free trade they were promising to advocate it. - Bureaucracy ? Commies of the past would be jealous. Not even in their most wild dreams they believed they could make people to fill papers for a walk. Or to report their medical condition every other day. Now, even fill papers to recieve a fucking tape ? - If you murder someone, it's justice's / authorities' job to proove you are guilty, not yours to proove your innocence. To recieve a gift, should be their job to proove it's not a gift. You, How the fuck to proove it's a gift ? Having the sender to say 'I send you a gift' ? That's already stated on declaration.

VAT, lets say i am OK to pay it. But handling fee here, now, is 15EUR !

[[MBD]]

The USPS hasn't updated the International Mail Manual yet but I'd imagine they will once it's closer to July. People shipping from the U.S. should keep an eye on this, under the individual country listings they normally keep the VAT threshold updated.

https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/welcome.htm

[TordonLjud]

Well, I guess it was just a matter of time before this happened. I quote avalara.com as to why the EU €22 VAT exemption valid until end of June is being removed.

"The exemption has also encouraged large-scale fraud by sellers deliberately under declaring the values of goods to escape the import VAT bill." Ha! On the other hand, maybe the packages will be delivered faster? "This will create a more efficient 'Green Channel', with quick and easy customs clearance. "

Perhaps, probably not though, it will be easier to circumvent the rules (somewhat) if the package is sent via a private courier company instead of a national postal service? Also, perhaps it may be worth adding a short letter/note indicating it's a gift when it comes to sending a single CD/tape/etc? Unreasonably time consuming if you're mailing a lot of things, however.

Long-term, considering all of these surprisingly protectionist measures around the world the last couple of years, for labels it may be worth looking into more cross-regional/continental collaborations regarding bigger releases (LPs, CDs) as it generally seems to become increasingly difficult just ordering/trading from outside your region. So, more co-releases could be a solution.

[theotherjohn]

Just include a fake Happy Birthday card or some other seasonal greeting with your small orders to pass them off as "gifts".

[Zeno Marx]

Just include a fake Happy Birthday card or some other seasonal greeting with your small orders to pass them off as "gifts".

A couple of old heads told me to do this in their first bit of advice about sending royalty copies outside the country.

[FreakAnimalFinland]

That is quite old school, that has barely relevance at least over here. In Finland, none of the packages go actually to hands of the customs. They are in shelves of airport post office warehouse, waiting for clearance. It is all automatic, so you will get notification that someone send you something. You'll need to fill the forms online. If you wish to get box for free, it requires actual person to take a look at your case. He won't have the box at hand, and won't be checking any greeting cards. Just the paperwork or information you give online. If he decides to inquire more proof, more screenshots of what kind of gift, of what value, you'd need to submit that. If he decides its ok, and lets stuff go free, you need to pay handling fee. If he feels there is some sort of fraud going on, not sure how proceedings will go on from there.

Myself, as I operate official company, VAT is no problem at all. Its just part of normal proceedings. Easiest is to pay the tax and just get the boxes. I am more annoyed about amount of time that goes into paperwork and useless documentation, especially if it means even simple promo CDR would be something you are figuring out whats this package, who sent it, should I pay handling fee for something I didn't even request in first place... hah

There is IOSS-system, that bigger webstores are or will be using. It means that international webstore bills you the VAT, and pays behalf of customer to the EU. This means customers themselves don't have to do the paperwork and handle the taxes. It is of course in favor of big companies or some platforms. All sorts of multinational corporations will have the resources to get things work.

Smaller companies (like myself) do not have that, but at least the paper work, contracts with post system, taxes and all such things are basic everyday routine. My concern is not really personal. It is mostly how this kind of changes change the underground in absolute grass-root level. When it is too difficult, expensive and complex to do send out self-financed tape... Or making self released vinyl would be out of question. Or seemingly unavoidable division of different continents.

[Ashmonger]

I don't know how it will affect me. I don't send a lot to USA etc anymore and don't order much from outside of Europe anymore, used to do it more often about 10 years ago, since low shipping cost and interesting $-€ rate made price very reasonable. Only once in a while I'd have customs pick out a package. Never fun, regularly with a price that's reasonable, sometimes outrageous (once with a package from NZ, about 15 tapes, 2 patches and a t-shirt I had to pay over €100).
It always was the case that if you had to pay for small packages you'd pay more in customs fees than in actual import fees.

Filling out CN22 forms is no big deal, but about half a year ago, a second form was added, for customs. With 99% the same information. Annoying because of how stupid it is, but manageable. What makes it even more stupid is that when you give your package to the postal lady she has to type all info on your package into a computersystem (as far as I can see with the facemask she's rather good looking, so everything has its good side, haha). Apparently in the future you can do that online.

Now they've announced this new regulation this topic is about: they reason that if you order from a non-registered company your product will be cheaper, but then you'll still have to pay the VAT. Of course, that doesn't work for small labels, bands and with trades. But not only that, you'll end up having to pay a lot more when ordering from these kind of companies. Because not only do you have to pay import fee, the VAT will be calculated on the total: productprice + import fee.
The example they give:
- order a product worth €10 from a registered webshop, pay 21% VAT, total €12,10
- order a product worth €10 from an unregistered webshop, import fee of €15,  pay 21% VAT on €25 (€5,25), total €30,25

Either a registered webshop doesn't have to pay import fees at all (so the import fee for non-registered is just a punishment for not being registered) or it will be calculated in their price, so the "you don't have to pay the import fee" is a lie.
Calculating VAT on product cost + import fee is total bullshit.

So, yeah, I don't know what's gonna happen in my case with trades outside of EU etc, but I'm feeling less and less inclined to keep doing this, not only because of this, but also because of ever rising shipping costs, the insane amount of stuff that constantly gets released, people not being able to order anymore via e-mail... Then again, I don't want to let the bastards grind me down, hah. We'll see.

[host body]

Huge bummer for me since I love crunchy texas / midwestern americanoise the best. Hope there would small EU editions of new tapes in the future, but maybe it's not feasible.

[FallOfNature]

My international postage rates have already increased by roughly 150% in a year so this is fantastic news....

[impulse manslaughter]

Overseas shipping rates are brutal. Just spend 150 euros to send 38 records to Japan.

[Urban Noise]

I've been filling up everything "outside-Europe" online since January, but until now it was basically the same old thing. I was already expecting more trouble clearing packages that come from non-European countries. It was just a matter of time. Here in Portugal it has been a fucking nightmare dealing with customs for a few years already, but with these new rules... I guess the very little trading I do once in a while will stop completely. And this will affect sales too I'm sure.
I think this will have an impact in the scene in a couple of years.