Small synths

[PuddysJacket]

Can anyone maybe recommend a small synth for beginners, respectively give an advice or have experience with the Korg MS20 mini in comparison to the Berhinger K2 / Wasp or even Neutron (just found these ones as possible alternatives), beside the already mentioned Youtube videos?

As I'm more or less new when it comes to creating own sounds, I'm a bit unsure which aspects I should exactly care about or what I need. And the MS20 mini is ~ 200,- € more expensive than the mentioned types of Behringer. Musical-wise it should go definitely into Death Industrial and Power Electronics, but also I'm also open to melodic influences (like Feindflug for example) or Industrial Techno beats.

Thanks a lot in advance!

microfreak or volca fm

[A-Z]

mfb kraftzwerg... it's tiny and light and sounds great and, being essentially 5 eurorack modules packaged together, is flexible as hell
obviously, there's a learning curve involved, but it's hardly more difficult than ms20 mini or neutron

[dreadfulmirror]

Thank you so far for your support! The mentioned alternatives do all leave a good impression to me (as far as I'm able to estimate)...

I've heard that analog synths / oscillators are in so far "better", as they normally have a more organic and powerful sound?

Generally, do you have any basic advice what should beginners really care about or what is important when looking for a suitable synth?

As a beginner I tend to use small, reasonably-priced equipment in the first step with user-friendly control and "logical" structure (oscillators, filter, envelope generator...). Nevertheless it should have a powerful sound and, beside being "beginner-friendly" it should have enough potential to use it also in a advanced state later...?!

[Euro Trash Bazooka]

Semi-modular, and in that case eurorack-compatible, should be of interest to you then because you can expand once you master your synth.

There are tons of decent synths available in the 300-600€ range and you'll get a lot of recommendations from everyone. I'd have recommended a Moog Mother 32 for instance, others an MS20, others a Behringer Neutron, others a Microfreak or a Minibrute, etc... They're all good recommendations but I think ultimately, it all depends on what you'll find to be the best work flow for you, or the easiest to grasp (in addition to sound, of course.) Some people start with the No-Coast and love it, I personally find Make Noise gear to be very very nonsensical layoutwise. But maybe that's what will work for you.

Watch as many videos as possible before you commit to any of the recommendations you get. Look for sounds and workflow. If it seems to make sense for you, go for it.

[JLIAT]

Just to say I have a 0-Coast but would NOT recommend it as a first synth. I've noticed a lot come up on ebay and suspect the reason is the learning curve. It's not designed around the standard VCO, VCF, VCA Ring Mod of typical analogue synths...  with only one VCO, and you will need a midi keyboard / controller...  yet i'm keeping it as it fits well with Euro rack, the Midi to CV and other elements... and is a good intro to other Make Noise Eurorack modules...

Whilst on Make Noise, the Morphogene is well worth looking at if you want to explore digitally 'tape loops'... and granular synthesis....  much longer samples than the phonogene and the Morph is stereo.. for sound manipulation, mangling its extreme.  But again expensive, especially if you have to buy a skiff.

Add to that the price of a 0-Coast maybe the MICROFREAK? If you want to wait and see the price, the Behringer 2600?

[dreadfulmirror]

To what I've seen in several videos on YT so far, I think I'll have a closer look at the Behringer K2 or Neutron. I guess it's best to pick up both in a store, maybe along with another synth, and just check which is best for me.

[JLIAT]

To what I've seen in several videos on YT so far, I think I'll have a closer look at the Behringer K2 or Neutron. I guess it's best to pick up both in a store, maybe along with another synth, and just check which is best for me.

I've heard good things re the Neutron from a couple of guys into noise.

[Euro Trash Bazooka]

Bear in mind that both the Neutron and the K2 need something to control them, a Keystep, a Beatstep Pro, an SQ1 or something. They'll be useless without one. And for the price of a controller and either of the K2 or the Neutron you can pretty much buy an MS20 Mini.

I'm also writing that because FYI the Neutron and the Crave are the only current  "affordable" synths Behringer  created themselves. They've been making the K2 while Korg still produce the MS20 Mini (which is very dickish), the Odyssey and the 2600 whereas Korg still has rights to make ARP stuff, and the Pro One without asking Dave Smith (who still makes stuff) whether they could do it as well.

[Soloman Tump]

Bear in mind that both the Neutron and the K2 need something to control them, a Keystep, a Beatstep Pro, an SQ1 or something. They'll be useless without one. And for the price of a controller and either of the K2 or the Neutron you can pretty much buy an MS20 Mini.

I'm also writing that because FYI the Neutron and the Crave are the only current  "affordable" synths Behringer  created themselves. They've been making the K2 while Korg still produce the MS20 Mini (which is very dickish), the Odyssey and the 2600 whereas Korg still has rights to make ARP stuff, and the Pro One without asking Dave Smith (who still makes stuff) whether they could do it as well.

I have no controller for my Neutron, and it is far from useless.

Sure, you can add a controller, but there is plenty you can do without one.

[Euro Trash Bazooka]

Sorry, yes, "useless" is reductive. You can do things with it because it has enveloppes, VCAs and a filter (and effects), but you can't sequence it or "play" it on its own compared to a Mother 32 for instance. That's what I meant.

[theworldisawarfilm]

They've been making the K2 while Korg still produce the MS20 Mini (which is very dickish)

Ah yes, but they also had the good sense of making the K2 fully eurorack compatible.

[JLIAT]

Well you can control / sequence  it from a computer?

These https://teenage.engineering/products/po/modular have sequencers...

[dreadfulmirror]

Bear in mind that both the Neutron and the K2 need something to control them, a Keystep, a Beatstep Pro, an SQ1 or something. They'll be useless without one. And for the price of a controller and either of the K2 or the Neutron you can pretty much buy an MS20 Mini.

I'm also writing that because FYI the Neutron and the Crave are the only current  "affordable" synths Behringer  created themselves. They've been making the K2 while Korg still produce the MS20 Mini (which is very dickish), the Odyssey and the 2600 whereas Korg still has rights to make ARP stuff, and the Pro One without asking Dave Smith (who still makes stuff) whether they could do it as well.

I know, but I found decent control units between 50 - 100 € that seem to be quite sufficient. I think, especially as a beginner, they just have to fulfill it's purpose as the sound itself is created by the synth. Please correct me, if I'm wrong.
So, best case assumed of course, I can get one of the Behringer synth along with control unit and decent headphones for more or less the same price as the MS-20 mini.

Yes, the Neutron is Behringer's own creation while the K2 is "just" a clone. Nevertheless, do you see any reasons to still buy the MS-20 mini instead of a Behringer, even if I would be satisfied with the K2 or Neutron (concerning sound and handling)?

[host body]

Yes, the Neutron is Behringer's own creation while the K2 is "just" a clone. Nevertheless, do you see any reasons to still buy the MS-20 mini instead of a Behringer, even if I would be satisfied with the K2 or Neutron (concerning sound and handling)?

the ms-20 mini has little advantage over the k2. the k2 does sound a bit different, maybe a bit brighter and modern (most likely you won't actually hear a difference unless doing a side by side comparison). the only thing is that it looks a bit cooler and is a real korg product.

the k2 however is smaller, has no integrated keyboard (which compared to the flimsy mini keys on the ms-20 is a definite plus) and has both original ms-20 filters. right now i'd buy a k2 + arturia keystep over an ms-20 mini.

[Into_The_Void]

HI everybody, just arrived here so that´s my first post. I read here and there and, regarding this topic, I´m glad to all of you because I already noticed 2-3 interesting solutions for small synths with reasonable prices which I will surely dig. I love monophonic synths and, if I have to suggest one that it seems not to be mentioned so far, I would say the Vermona.
It´s very fat and aggressive, I was thinking to sell my Dark Energy to get it, but at the end I decided to keep it and maybe to take the Vermona in the future. Dark Energy is also very good and, although the initial limited functionality, could be patched with other stuff (i.e. MS20 or Microbrute or your Eurorack gear) and give interesting results.

Another killer synth (which I think is sold out since lot of time) is the Black Death and Mini Black Death. I have the mini and is an hell of a machine, pretty uncontrollable but sounds very good and can give a lot of good results if used with creativity (and/or sampled).