WHITE CENTIPEDE NOISE PODCAST

[Stipsi]

I do not think most people who are doing so called extreme things, really think that they are doing "extreme things". Nor that they would need to out-do someone else, but more likely it is that they are doing something that satisfies some of their urge. And there is very very very small "audience" for that, and artists probably barely thinks about them.

I can't agree more with this statement

[Bigsby]

Nonsense. Pick a different adjective, then. How could such artists possibly not think that their work is antisocial or abnormal or egregious or whatever?

This "urge" they're satisfying certainly doesn't develop  in total isolation. In fact it's nothing w/out social context.  PE is inherently social.  Way more so than harsh noise. It can be all about hate or murder or the esoteric or misogyny or historical atrocity or misanthropy or whatever but it's absolutely social. Reflect on a serial killer or scream your guts out about immigrants, either way your are 100% entangled with society.  If you look at the GO presentation in Osaka for example it's  like a  full on social or cultural or political phenomenon.  Images. Uniforms. Weapons. Posturing. Vocals. Slogans.  Iconic allies (GW&Prurient). An enthralled audience.  It's social communication.  Its tribal. It's social, even if it's "antisocial," and it would be ridiculous if someone, artist or audience,  claimed this is not extremely different from convention.

 I don't buy the bullshit  idea  "I didn't know &/or I don't care that others might consider this extreme, it's just what I think about."  Of course you did, of course you do.

[Cranial Blast]

Had opportunity to drink beers with Tisbor last weekend, and what a gentleman. When discussion includes not only noise, but Cicciolina, Bulldozer (band), italian raw meat eating habits etc, good topics to discuss!

I would guess that including "filthy artist" brings opportunity to discuss topics in other ways than usually?  Many interesting topics for me, but also appear to issues that are often discussed or revolved around, but very few has much idea what to think about it. Not necessarily in WCN podcast, but in general, I think very common way is declaring something "problematic", and... that's that. Which is weird, since if something appears to include problem or difficulty, then to not discuss that exactly, may indicate as if it would be not possible to - if not solve, then better see what it is.

One discussion would the "shock" element in noise. Con-Dom and Death Squad name dropped and question is, would it work these days.
Of course. Why not? One would only have to ask precisely: work how? Tisbor gave example of MK9 show being able to awake feelings and disturb people. Yes, true, they do, but like I mentioned in some reports of MK9 gigs, when being bombarded by videos of injustices americans, or american political system did or does, at least here in Finland, a lot of people take eye contact and nod in ways of.... "hmmm... americans! Haha. We know, dude". Discussed with several people who all have the same feeling. Lets say like project of Cryptofascisme (same artist as Violent Shogun), who investigates ugly details of French history, and suddenly it may be more disturbing as many probably didn't know about things artist is dealing with? With USA related topics, it is more pop news that regardless of how fierce they are, is like entertainment. Just like serial killer eating gay meat for breakfeast, that is now just mass entertainment.

Interesting thing is perhaps exactly that. We know it is "shocking", but does it really shock us? Would it be more shocking realisation that it is so banal that it does NOT cause any distress or anxiety despite seemingly extreme content?

Same with Con-Dom, I would think that one would need to go beyond idea of shock effect, to level that material speaks on matters why it is NOT shocking anymore. Why it might be just... confusing. That could easily open entirely different perspective to deal with material AND yourself, when its not expectation that there is some sort of automatic response it is supposed to cause. I recall Grey Wolves had even manifest of *confusion*, but you never see it being considered as people appear to be so fixed on idea of "shock".

Although, some may be shocked that Tisbor is one of the rare artists featured in any podcast who just flat out says fuck safe spaces and he keeps doing what he does. Of course, not that he would do anything bad.  Nevertheless, as principle, even conclude he has no time for such foolishness is something we have not heard in history of WCN before this?

It is curious remark, since just today I watched one music video that had warning text before the music video that it has "blinking lights". I know it is a thing these days, but if you can't turn off video that appears to have blinking lights... come on, jeeeesus. Whatever happens in noise, one would hope there is possibility to advice western youth that do not celebrate becoming retards and imbeciles and even less pretending to be such. It is absolutely possible to say that not everything is "progress", and whatever contemporary foolishness is there, one can be critical about it now. 

This "would it work" is also interesting to discuss in previously mentioned question: does it work if its nature shifts into entertainment? We may ask what if nature changes, when it is no longer "it"? There is discussion where Oskar mentions that perhaps Filth & Violence was the pinnacle of that old filthy PE approach and none of the new stuff is really anymore that. It is something else.

I would make bold statement, that in fact F&V does not really directly belong to lineage of old power electronics. None of the Finn PE really belongs. Like GRUNT is as much "Ramleh" as it is "Gerogerigegege" or as "G.O" as "Merzbow". Origins of Bizarre Uproar is not in industrial music or power electronics. This may be key to understand why F&V felt strong and fresh at the time and still does, as it was not copying old UK sound, not 90's USA, not german heavy electronics, it was building something of its own without knowing entire history genre. Not wanting to fit into something pre-existing, but just doing his thing. That there is authentic drive behind it, not even knowning how many may have used topics or sounds before, since it is born and invented inside the artists over and over again without them knowing of eachother. I would think inventing something that is already invented is still vastly different process than following template you see in front of you.

As much as I would admire any former (or current) artist, very rarely trying to be like one formerly existing thing. Merging endless amount of inspirational things together is what makes - hopefully - something that did not formerly exist.

Not wanting nor asking belonging to something, but creation of something or your own may be one of the trademarks of "Finnish noise"? Almost everybody insists they are not part of what others are doing, but couple steps back and you see how the network forms new type of "scene" that perhaps existed nowhere in world before, but also its formless and lawless nature means it just keeps shifting into different shapes.

Oskar asks if Tisbors parents know what's up and man tells story of some sort of assistant of the mother discovering his cock drawings, heh... was it mentioned at what age it happened? Not sure. In my case, back in the day, state/city would enabled free "maid" to help young couples to clean up their houses etc. Couple hours a week.  80's Finland. This cleaning lady ratted me out to my parents, being 6 year old boy spending time modifying coloring books and making drawings with female nipples and pubic hair. "What's wrong with that kid!?!" It may be debatable, but I guess nothing significant. Perhaps just rare case of knowing early on what I like, already as a kid! I liked idea of ladies physique far far more than some hag ratting me out to parents, who luckily didn't mind. Now as grown up man, I feel just about the same. I like, and dislike same mentioned things.

It would not be surprised if in Tisbor interview he could have said he was always into this stuff, and it is not about following "noise standards". It comes very clearly from him. That is how it is with most real-deal guys I have ever talked to. They follow none of expectations or guidelines, they were always into things they involve in their noise. And it doesn't matter if outsides deemed something "old", something "new & exciting", since for creator it doesn't matter. Its not like you'd be creating new entertainment for consumers that requires fulfill their needs. It is artists world were we can take peek if we want to.

Quite many do, actually! Curious is the discussion is the filthy noise "popular" anymore. Tisbor explain some things in very simple way: What if your releases can't be posted to any social media? What is all your videos are being taken down? What if your payment options are shut down. etc. Anyone who has been at certain social media groups where people discuss noise may have seen what can happen if you casually post your favorite CD playing right now.. and you got some can't handle that you actually like it. Most people will soon realize it serves no point to be bickering in comment sections when you are not here for that, but just appreciating great releases. So better to post something else and not get entire group shut down. Suddenly 20 copies tape may be more visible than 500 CD's, as the other thing... well, is not visible. But what is its "popularity" is entirely different thing.

I have mentioned to several others that one thing people tend to ignore is speed of expression. How you measure "popularity" or "visibility", of things that can be so different than one artist is doing 10-50 copies tapes, 6 times a month and "everything sells out", "everybody talks about it".. and indeed, its like 3 comments somewhere and couple flame emojis. And then, we should compare it with band who does release every 5 years, and sells 500-1000 LP/CD. No gigs. No talk. But clearly, numbers indicate there is vastly different kind of popularity there. There might be really great artist there who just made the amazing 30 copies tape... but would you fly to see him play in Osaka? Hell no. Many wouldn't even walk out of their flat even to local gig. So to measure what is popular, is interesting question. It is interesting also to see who discusses it. If its guy who wasn't there 5 years ago, he might have only seen the flood of small noise tapes, since speed how power electronics or industrial works is so much slower. Albums tend to mean more. They often have longer lifespan. In noise you may have had 5 new releases since you last talked with friend, in PE, "your new album" may be something that came 3 years ago and is really still the NEW album.

So... well, lets say great interview, cheer Tisbor & WCN! Although too bad public episode ended just as could have been some good advice! hah..

Would of loved to been a part of that beer drinking conversation with you guys about thy mighty Bulldozer!!! Definitely one of the greatest and most not nearly talked about enough black 'n' punk metal shits around. I easily put the on same pedestal as Venom, Bathory ect. They truly are the missing link between Mötörhead and Venom. Very nice to see a mention of them and
I'm sure after a few beers, because "Another Beer Is What I Need" haha...that some chuckles came up about Dance Got Sick!

[Atrophist]

PE is inherently social.  Way more so than harsh noise. It can be all about hate or murder or the esoteric or misogyny or historical atrocity or misanthropy or whatever but it's absolutely social. Reflect on a serial killer or scream your guts out about immigrants, either way your are 100% entangled with society. 

I think this is an important point to remember. Real transgression is actually difficult and risky. If you lose sight of this, you're at risk of becoming no different from the half a million BM bands who think they're shocking somebody by putting an upside-down crucifix in their logo. Or, for example, the idiot who represented Ireland in the Eurovision last week, thinking she is somehow a courageous, outrageous outlier and rebel.

[Commander15]

PE is inherently social.  Way more so than harsh noise. It can be all about hate or murder or the esoteric or misogyny or historical atrocity or misanthropy or whatever but it's absolutely social. Reflect on a serial killer or scream your guts out about immigrants, either way your are 100% entangled with society. 

I think this is an important point to remember. Real transgression is actually difficult and risky. If you lose sight of this, you're at risk of becoming no different from the half a million BM bands who think they're shocking somebody by putting an upside-down crucifix in their logo. Or, for example, the idiot who represented Ireland in the Eurovision last week, thinking she is somehow a courageous, outrageous outlier and rebel.

That Bambie Thug-affair was really cringe-y and embarassing. EBU and big business-approved "rebellion" in three minutes.

[WCN]

There is a new episode of Unsound Heads out now on WCN TV with P.M. of HISTORY OF LEATHER, VELVET CURTAIN, Recluse Activity label, etc. We talk about P.M.'s work, but we mostly talk about rap music.
Full episode here: https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

[WCN]

OUT NOW - Thomas D'Angelo on WCN Podcast

https://youtu.be/URoHLGlJf2A

Thomas D'Angelo, sometimes known as T.D., is a Philadelphia based artist whose sensuous yet critical approach to experimental music has earned him appreciation from hardcore noise heads and Avant Garde aficionados alike. He is a frequent collaborator with Stewart Skinner, with whom he runs the label "We Are One." Thomas also writes about music, and conducts interviews with other artists. His most recent CD "Voiceprints and Aircuts: Sound Poetry By Other Means" is now available from Adhuman. Full 2 hour episode and an exclusive T.D. track at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

[Cranial Blast]

PE is inherently social.  Way more so than harsh noise. It can be all about hate or murder or the esoteric or misogyny or historical atrocity or misanthropy or whatever but it's absolutely social. Reflect on a serial killer or scream your guts out about immigrants, either way your are 100% entangled with society. 

I think this is an important point to remember. Real transgression is actually difficult and risky. If you lose sight of this, you're at risk of becoming no different from the half a million BM bands who think they're shocking somebody by putting an upside-down crucifix in their logo. Or, for example, the idiot who represented Ireland in the Eurovision last week, thinking she is somehow a courageous, outrageous outlier and rebel.

I don't think it's a matter of transgression to invert the cross these days, it's more a prerequisite to BM these days. Most of the best BM today has been done by total weirdos like Shitfucker, Bonehunter, ect. Taking that snotty black n punk approach like the Vemom before them, so that's clearly a debatable subject of course. I like to think of BM as a lineage that is of beast with many heads!

[FreakAnimalFinland]

OUT NOW - Thomas D'Angelo on WCN Podcast

https://youtu.be/URoHLGlJf2A

Thomas D'Angelo, sometimes known as T.D., is a Philadelphia based artist whose sensuous yet critical approach to experimental music has earned him appreciation from hardcore noise heads and Avant Garde aficionados alike. He is a frequent collaborator with Stewart Skinner, with whom he runs the label "We Are One." Thomas also writes about music, and conducts interviews with other artists. His most recent CD "Voiceprints and Aircuts: Sound Poetry By Other Means" is now available from Adhuman. Full 2 hour episode and an exclusive T.D. track at https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

Good episode, assumption is that public episode being less than half, it does get deeper in patreon version. It could be interesting to know how much would language effect on what is being called "noise". In English, one could assume many would see noise or harsh noise, perhaps as "genre names", but as soon as you'd use alternative expression for it...  Not sure how it is now, but many times back in the day, I didn't know almost anyone would would use terms like power electronics, harsh noise, cut-up noise etc etc, but many would just casually talk about "melu", which is just simple word for noise in Finnish. When someone is asking like "onko mitään hyvää uutta melua tullut?", even if translation would be "any good new noise arrived?", it doesn't really implicate that it needs to be red-zone all harsh head crunch, but basically you could reply "yes", and name drop Gerogerigege, Con-Dom, Merzbow or Putrefier and all good.
Now, that there has been almost analytic, deconstructive language involved for so long time, it certainly changes the ways we talk or perhaps even remember the past. Whatever noise was, if current expression of NOISE means something else, perhaps 90's noise revisionism that happened is simply result that current definition of harsh noise changes perception of past?
At least according to Hopkins' book about Hijokaidan and early stages of Japanese noise, over there terms was noizu. Word referred to stuff that was not industrial music nor musique concrete type of thing, but chaotic improvised old school noizu. There was expressed Merzbow was more like in tradition of art music, musique concrete, tape music, while Hijokaidan, it was the noise for sake of noise real noizu. It would be curious to think that perhaps already in 90's there were older harsh head guys thinking "this is not NOISE!" when expecting Hijokaidan/Incapacitants type of pure noise and getting sound collage or moderately distorted ambient hissing?

[WCN]

OUT NOW on White Centipede Noise Podcast - Max Klebanoff of DEATH KNEEL / TOMB MOLD

Max Klebanoff, the Canadian musician behind the noise project DEATH KNEEL and drummer for death metal band TOMB MOLD, is an artist deeply dedicated to his craft and developing his own language within the extreme genres he operates in. His work as DEATH KNEEL has always set itself apart with its progressive sonics and introspective aura, but with his 2023 CD "Dawn Simulation" on Chondritic Sound, he began to breach more abstract and harsh territory, which he has masterfully expanded upon over the past several short-length tapes, released on his own imprint "Life Of Sensation." In our long chat, Max opens up about what drives his passion and work ethic, how he does what he does, and the conclusions of a life dedicated to extreme music.  Full 2+ hour episode on Patreon - Premium subscribers can download an exclusive board recording of a live DEATH KNEEL set from 2023.

https://youtu.be/sV8jf5EqqRQ?si=vJq53X8LYDupmK1C
https://www.patreon.com/whitecentipedenoise

[FreakAnimalFinland]

I remember couple other episodes where is discussion that many noise makers are or have been drummers. There is a bit talk, sort of hypothesis that drummers would approach noise differently.

Of course, it is possible. In Finland you could kind of lump drummer noise guys... Corral Shut? Mogao? Bizarre Uproar? Nuori Veri? Well.. a lot of people have played drums in some sort of bands, but I would guess queston may be are they drummers in sort of rhythmically advanced ways or are we talking of drummers who can hit snare and kick on after another, heh... ? That is not derogatory remark at all. Just stating fact that perhaps free jazz or prog drummer is entirely different type of thing than guy who has done d-beat or grinding blast all his life?

Another thing would be, that there must be way way way more GUITARISTS in noise, right? How different would be guitarists from drummers in terms of noise they ended up making? Based on my own knowledge, I would say I don't really know for fact, but gut feeling says there is barely differnce. It is not like guitarists would approach their noise significantly different - with exception of those who bring their instruments or musicianship into noise. It could be interesting to hear from guys who sort of identify as musician, in some particular instrument, if they feel it has effect on noise they do?

(I don't consider myself musician really, and almost exclusively play just to create my own things, and don't identify to any particular instrument.)

[Bigsby]

what about loading one of these up with harsh noise samples and then bashing out cut up noise? Would a drummer do it better or someone with no sense of timing or rhythm?

Is harsh noise essentially percussive?

[FreakAnimalFinland]

inside those cymbals and at least old school pads was just a piezzo. so it would trigger the sound from samples. One barely needs more than such samples where you connect the piezzos as triggers and could play samples... well, you could associate playing with samplers or even synths that are manually triggered as "percussive".

Theory of harsh noise being percussive, may be valid for something like.. cut up harsh noise. You got the timing, you got the gravity blast type stutterloop blast, you got fills and moments of sparse hits within silence. But, most of harsh noise, escapes such musical notions. Indeed, idea that one needs to be musician to have sense of composition and execution may come from musical people, while noise makers may reject it. (Where composition doesn't refer to musical score, but merely how wholeness is put together.)

[Commander15]

I would suggest that overall dynamics and timing concerning when bringing different elements, "movements" and modulations into the mix could be percieved as an some kind of greater rhythm within composition but is it percussive in the strict sense of that word? I think not. I tend to think percussive elements to be concrete in their appereance, i.e. beats, audible rhythms and time keeping elements.

[Heppakirjat]

There is a bit talk, sort of hypothesis that drummers would approach noise differently.

I think the opposite could be argued as well, for any instrument? As a wee little boy I studied classical piano, but I was always more interested in textures and abusing sustain than learning to play traditionally well. This was way before I actually heard any noise tracks or albums or really even anything experimental, but I guess some underlying affinity for noises, sounds etc. affected my approach with traditional instruments more than the other way around? However I too have a hard time recognizing something particular regarding noise made by x-instrument players that could be somehow generalized. Maybe guitarists etc. generally tend to have pedals lying around but I guess even that would be a stretch.

Indeed, idea that one needs to be musician to have sense of composition and execution may come from musical people, while noise makers may reject it.

Yes. I believe even a lot of "musical" noise pieces might not have anything to do with being a musician in the traditional sense, but a lot actually just happen because one has vision, taste, sense of drama or whatever and is simply able to excecute. If you have a gut feeling for stuff you might not need anything else.

Edit. The latter part.